1mailing list/forum software
2---------------------------
3Find a replacement for Google Groups.
4
5Goal is to support both a mailing list and a web forum interface, with both
6treated as first class citizens.
7 * The email interface needs to be good: readable subject lines,
8   readable message bodies, containing the subject and text of the message
9   with minimal boilerplate. Forum threads become email threads in your
10   mail reader. Replying to a post creates a thread on the forum.
11 * The forum UI needs to be good, at least as good as as a threaded mail
12   reader. Easy to browse, find and submit posts. Rich text, embedded images.
13 * Good admin interface, good spam filtering. First new post from a unique
14   email address is quarantined until that address is approved for posting.
15
16The data model for the forum is:
17 * One or more lists/channels/rooms, initially just the one, but with room
18   for expansion later.
19 * Within a channel, there are posts, with subject lines and bodies, with
20   discussions threaded by subject line.
21   Rich text, ideally Markdown, and embedded images are supported.
22   Replying to a post creates a thread.
23 * You can subscribe to a channel via email, it behaves exactly like
24   a mailing list.
25
26I currently use Google Groups. Problem: not open source, and it's google.
27The fact that it's google limits the set of people willing to sign up.
28Otherwise it is fine.
29
30Alternative software:
31Someone's list: https://producingoss.com/en/message-forums.html
32Not suitable:
33 * sympa.org: no web forum, just readonly web archive
34 * dadamailproject.com: no web forum
35People are confused about:
36 * Discourse. Forum UI is very complex, featureful, configurable, popular.
37   https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298
38     "With properly configured incoming mail, Discourse can be used just like
39     a mailing list. If you’ll be interacting with Discourse exclusively by
40     email, consider enabling Mailing list mode in your personal preferences,
41     provided it’s enabled on your forum." (Not actually true.)
42   And you can import from Google Groups.
43   And there is a mobile client.
44   And check out https://blenderartists.org/
45 --
46   But: Tried mailing list mode once, and found it unusable.
47   Even Jeff Atwood says: mailing list mode forces an email on every single
48   post, forever. It’s “nightmare difficulty”, or “the nuclear option”.
49   https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/16
50   This thread explains why Discourse is not suitable for migrating from a
51   mailman instance. It's not designed to support mailing lists.
52Possibly suitable:
53 * Zulip 3. The Zulip data model matches the email data model: each message
54   has a subject line, contents, belongs to a thread. The Zulip project
55   lists "mirroring mailing list traffic" as a supported use case, and the
56   docs for configuring this look plausible. Still need: testimonials about
57   how well this works, what the problems are.
58    * Is zulip a good replacement for google groups?
59      Weirdly, "zulip-announce" is on google groups.
60    * Although Zulip has "email integration", it does not appear to have
61      high quality mailing list integration. There is an open issue
62      for Mailman integration: https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/959
63 * Mailman 3.
64   eg, https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/
65   Installing on Ubuntu 20.04 requires following a mailing list post,
66   manually fixing bugs in Python code.
67 * groupserver.org
68   Supposedly like google groups. Is there image support?
69 * groups.io is not open source, but is free for open source projects and
70   has github integration and markdown support. It is marketed as an upgrade
71   from mailman and google groups.
72 * dfeed : https://github.com/CyberShadow/DFeed
73   Forum UI initially looks pretty good, with full mailing list support.
74   Written in D, only used by D community.
75   One man project, no real documentation (read the source).
76   Markdown, but apparently no inline image support.
77   As of 2016, can't delete or edit a forum post, because you can't unsend
78   an email message.
79 * HyperKitty (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/) is a "modern forum"
80   web user interface for mailman. It is GPL free software from the FSF and
81   Fedora uses it. But it is plain text only: no rich text, markdown, or
82   embedded images. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/225
83 * Empathy is an archiver and forum UI for mailman, but as a forum it
84   is inadequate for OpenSCAD. Currently (Jul 2021) not open source and the
85   main dev has died, so no support or new features.
86
87Nothing exists that is free software, actively maintained, forum+mailing list,
88markdown + inline images.
89* google groups is proprietary
90* there are multiple good forums without mailing list support
91* dfeed has no inline images
92