1December 5, 2000: 2Washort says, " $self._hasIntelligence()" 3Washort says, "1" 4Washort says, "*ponders setting that to 0 on certain people*" 5Maxwell says, "yes, that's our Ego-Enhancing API" 6 [this from before we had 'emote'. I added it 10 minutes later. -ed] 7% 8You say, "I wanted to discourage people from using the [old] code as examples...". 9You say, "but I don't think that bad java style is going to damage your budding programming skills :)". 10* washort nods. 'I seriously hope not.' [see, i told you I added 'emote' -ed] 11Washort says, "Oh, did i ever tell you about the Java assignment i had at the beginning of the semester?" 12Washort says, "I was bored so i did it without any loops or temp variables." 13Washort says, "so... don't tell ME about bad style. ;)" 14% 15<glyph> it's times like this when I wish I could just swallow my pride and use a standard thing like asyncore :) 16% 17<jedin> Since it's completely unsolicited, I'd just like to add that anyone who tries implementing Keynesian economics in this game will be put behind the door with the Elder Sign.... 18% 19<Nafai> I love Python. It has made me look smart in this consulting job. Because of how easily I was able to do what they need me to do, they ended up doubling my pay rate. :) Woot! 20<glyph> Woot *indeed*, good sir. :) 21% 22<glyph> you know, when I say *now* I mean "in a minute" :) 23% 24Glyph: "You need to start working on Twisted Reality." 25Mike: "What makes you say that?" 26Glyph: "Because it pains me to hear you talk about how you were 'in the same bed as' someone on AIM. There is no bed. There is no spoon. There's just some gay-ass peer-to-peer shit going on." 27% 2802:26:44 AreteComp: I've decided I'm going to warn you every 5 minutes until you go to bed. 29(You have been warned by AreteComp (5%)) 3002:28:48 AreteComp: Tick, tick, motherfucker. 31% 32<washort> "TONIGHT on CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: Kenaan vs The Shrike" 33% 34<washort> yow. autoconf can be *thorough* sometimes.. 35<washort> "checking for EBCDIC... no" 36<washort> i hesitate to ask what it would have done had the answer been "yes" 37% 38<glyphAtWork> the http server was so we could say "Web!" if we ever did a freshmeat announcement 39<glyphAtWork> this makes people excited 40% 41FifthKow: jello is beyond good and evil 42% 43<washort> besides, we need a way to handle the cases of characters on drugs... 44% 45<jerji> sorry glyph, but I have to take away your dork award. det is far more deserving.:) 46% 47<det> glyph: you be on tomorrow ? 48<glyph> det: what, you think I'll suddenly grow a life? 49% 50<glyph> det: if it were any more generic it would be socket.socket 51-- (responding to det's request to make twisted.web more generic) 52% 53<glyph> GenericBoy: Dude, this is *python*... objects get created when you sneeze 54% 55<tenth> I get the feeling that I could rack up some ad impressions by posting an announcement to FM about a webserver "powered entirely by love, that I made out of this bong I had". 56<tenth> Well, as long as it did something really l88t that other bong-servers didn't do, anyway. 57% 5801:35:08 AreteComp: 59Before you finish linking, you must answer the following: 60Are you a Jew?[y/N]: y 61Nice try, Yid. 62% 63<samuel> oh why do you mock me rpm 64% 65<jerji> oh no! 66% 67<tpck> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/whatisdivunal.html << makes it sound likes its done and played by millions worldwide 68<washort> tpck: that's what ad copy is for 69% 70<tpck> glyph: I thought Enterprise Class Software wasn't supposed to crash? 71<glyph> tpck: It costs extra for the kind that doesn't crash, I think 72% 73<glyph> now you're probably wondering how to run cvs 74<samuel> actually i was thinking of naked women. 75<samuel> but sure. 76% 77<\\mimic> graydon: it's when you start constructing conditional branches in sed that the men in white coats come for you 78<graydon> mimic: been there, done that. wrote a qmail crypto extension in sed this summer :) 79% 80<jerji> dude tf programming, in my experience, was just about reading the help file and hacking something until it worked. 81<jerji> not really the kind of place to employ software engineering principles. ;) 82% 83<denial> CanDoo: I would rather run a home trepaning centre than do tech support :) 84% 85<zedboy> washort "A given program in PERL is like a turd. you can see it. smell it. touch it. yuck! it's definitely a turd. it's compact. it's smelly. it's brown. a turd, thru and thru" 86<zedboy> washort "The *same* program in C/C++/Java/your favorite imperative language here is like a roll 87 of toilet paper, with the turd smeared *all over it*. you tear of one sheet. yuck! another sheet. ugh! another sheet. ewww! etc" 88 --- quoting Chet Murphy 89% 90<shapr> I get the feeling regexes in emacs are subtly different from python 91% 92<moshez> I'm not touching anything not abstracted from hardware at least two levels 93% 94<dreid> wh00t! 95<dreid> i made the quotefile! 96% 97<dreid> "lispachu, parentheses attack!" 98% 99<e@ircnet> internet 100% 101<washort> this was experimentally determined using an unholy combination of emacs, python's interactive mode, and bc 102% 103<smoke:#lisp> perhaps i should write a "Teach yourself CL in 21 days" book and hide from Peter Norvig for a few years 104% 105<GenericBoy> I'm not high! 106% 107<Mike_L> what is twisted python? 108<glyph> Mike_L: it's the python libraries your mother would use, if she were a programmer, had a lot of free time, and was very VERY patient 109% 110KaraNiSuru: Your opinion has differing degrees of importance to me. On 111programming, it's almost like law; on fashion, it's unimportant; on cuteness, 112it serves only to warn me away. 113(addressed to glyph, from his girlfriend) 114% 115<washort> glyph: you're evil, too 116<glyph> washort: I try 117<washort> not the good kind of evil 118<washort> the other kind 119% 120<Yosomono@efnet> swing is to gui programming what cupholders are to cdrom drives 121<Yosomono@efnet> something easily mistaken for the real thing 122% 123<glyph> well, I'm working on divunal now 124<washort> and what are you doing to it? 125<glyph> I'm making the clouds work again 126<glyph> the clouds were always one of my favorite bits 127<washort> bah 128<washort> typical vapourware 129% 130<glyph> washort: I learned C from reading the E sources. 131<washort> glyph: well, i learned python from reading Zope 132<washort> glyph: so i think we're about equally damaged 133% 134--> glyph (glyph@adsl-64-123-27-108.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #python 135<glyph> yay for pushing the wrong button 136<washort> when will you xchat people learn 137<washort> silly hacker, irc is for terminals 138<washort> you dont see *me* typing '/quite' by accident ;) 139<-- washort has quit (either =)) 140--> washort (washort@131.204.216.12) has joined #Python 141<washort> glyph: you bastard. 142% 143<GenericBoy> I wish I had enough knowledge to start working on this damn thing 144<GenericBoy> glyph: But you had to crush my hopes. ;) 145<GenericBoy> not that that's bad though, I am grateful for giving me a better 146perspective 147<glyph> GenericBoy: crushing hopes is what I do best 148<glyph> GenericBoy: you call me "glyph", but in ancient mesopotamia they called me the "eater of souls" 149% 150<glyph> many as-yet-untranslated pre-cuneform tablets will one day be 151translated to say "beware he who will write a webserver that will deprive you 152of your very will to live!" 153<glyph> GenericBoy: although I'm not sure if they were talking about me or 154marc andreissen 155% 156<GenericBoy> I'll be the t.w guy from now on 157<glyph> yay! 158<glyph> YAY! 159<glyph> SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO MAINTAIN MY SOFTWARE 160<glyph> oh god I think I'm going to cry 161<GenericBoy> ack 162<washort> GenericBoy: i think that was a mistake :) 163* GenericBoy runs 164% 165<glyph> GenericBoy: * New in 0.8.0: carmstro's soul now comes with twisted.web 166% 167<jepler> C: 168<jepler> char buf[1024] 169<jepler> strcpy(buf, user_data) 170<jepler> Python: 171<jepler> buf = user_data[:1024] 172<jepler> if len(user_data) > 1024: security_hole(user_data[1024:]) 173<jepler> actually, the translation is not difficult, so long as you implement security_hole() properly. 174% 175<LynchM0b> ... do u have an easier way 176<glyph> python ;-) 177<LynchM0b> thank the lord 178<LynchM0b> java is rediculous 179% 180<yy[Z]@efnet> i can say with all confidence that my python code was the 181fastest and tightest code on the whole java project i been on for the last year 182% 183<ben3> OO is a seductive failure. 184% 185<dreid> washort: i don't want to take over the world 186<dreid> i want to marry the chick who is going to take over the world 187% 188<demoncrat> forth is much better than sanity 189% 190<snibril> Tim can go on at length on issues which are not really the core of the problem, complicating said problem for himself and everybody else. 191<snibril> glyph: sounds like you ;) 192<glyph> snibril: the difference is there is rarely actually a problem, when I'm involved :) 193% 194<glyph> So if I understand you correctly you want software that will b-2-b education portal internet enterprise mission-critical! 195<muks> yep 196<glyph> Ah. then you want Zope. 197% 198<shapr> glyph: ok, where's the tw tutorial? 199<glyph> shapr: feh, you think there is *documentation*? You just need to be at harmony with the universe, and the api calls will come to you. 200<shapr> I just got a job writing Java. harmony is nowhere close to me. 201% 202<shapr> I just *love* your Python vs Java rant :) it's GREAT 203% 204<shapr> glyph: while reading through the last part of your rant, I got this mental picture of "Glyph Lefkowitz, Python Ninja" systematically chopping limbs off the JVM 205<shapr> glyph: the problem is that "don't expect your apps to run" was cutting the head off, and for cinematic effect, it should be on the bottom 206% 207<dreid> GenericBoy: but multiple eterms tailing various logfiles are great for making it look like your actually doing something :) 208<GenericBoy> hehe 209<dreid> i'm preparing myself for when i have to work in a corporate setting 210% 211<TomG> I'm in the wrong channel. 212% 213<dreid> Yoso: i like to think that i'm a fairly sane individual for a python programmer anyway 214% 215<glyph> snibril: I think we should put *you* in the unit tests dir. 216% 217<bram> have I mentioned there's a FRIGGIN BUTTLOAD of ways web input can go bad? 218% 219<washort> GenericBoy: if we knew what we were doing, we would not call it programming 220% 221<GenericBoy> Usually relying on magic buttons from the future doesn't work 222[in reply to something Mike_L said. --ed] 223% 224<blupingu> hi glyph. i'm trying out python because of twisted python :) 225% 226 newpath = os.path.join(self.path, path) 227 # forgive me, oh lord, for I know not what I do 228 p, ext = os.path.splitext(newpath) 229% 230<Nafai> There's a twisted python philosophy tutorial? 231<washort> Nafai: yes.... read it, expand your consciousness 232<obanta> It's actually a new religion 233% 234<glyph> washort: coding angry lends whole new meaning to song lyrics :) 235% 236<GenericBoy> what's the point of all of this? 237<glyph> GenericBoy: I don't know 238% 239<Acapnotic> [ Read Past Entries ] [ Modify an entry ] [ Write new entry ] [ Have me add one for you. ] 240<Acapnotic> include: [ ] generic angst [ ] relationship trouble (or lack thereof) 241 [ ] other family trouble [ ] cynical technology rants 242<Acapnotic> also bash: [ ] slashdot [ ] users [ ] sysadmins [ ] politicians [ ] voters 243<Cysgod> [ ] Perl 244 245 -- proposed new configuration interface for the standard twisted.web weblog 246% 247<moshez@ircnet> I'm going to write a treatise "girls as open-source projects". 248<moshez@ircnet> Instead of "reaching second-base", you're "writing patches". 249<moshez@ircnet> "So, are you writing patches for you-know-who?" "Well, no, but I'm using the CVS version" 250<moshez@ircnet> Should translate to "We're only kissing, but that's as serious as it got" 251% 252<dreid> watching a beautiful girl sleep is amazingly fun 253<dreid> more fun than coding 254<washort> do you mean 'more fun than coding Enterprise Applications in java', 'more fun than coding display hacks in C', or 'more fun than coding weblogs in python'? 255% 256 # ha ha, python can do lexical closures good enough for me 257 # (Bah. if these were lexical closures you wouldn't need the 258 # 'obj=obj', and you could do 'return setdesc' and the 259 # function would still work after escaping. -was) 260 def setdesc(desc, obj=obj): 261 obj.description=desc 262% 263<_Krelin> Data hiding and encapsulation are at least in-laws, if not blood brothers 264<glyph> data hiding is encapsulation's shrewish mother-in-law 265% 266<dreid> Zope is pretty much the reason i learned PHP, (and TPy is the reason i stopped) 267% 268* Nafai doesn't think he is worthy of the quotefile 269<washort> you're in it twice 270% 271<washort@opn> "twisted python.... it's featurrific!" 272% 273<moshez> living is just syntactic sugar. 274% 275<det> glyph: what are you going to do now that UO2 is canceled ? 276<washort> det: take over the world 277<washort> det: same as before 278<det> washort: but thats what he was going to do last night 279<washort> det: glyph is a man of habit 280% 281<washort> who invented this "time zone" crap? everybody should be on IRC at once 282% 283--- washort has changed the topic to: | <-- you must be smarter than this stick to ride the internet 284% 285<Krelin> TwistedPython may, in fact, have both "enterprise" AND "internet" ;) 286% 287<thirmite@efnet> nothing like a pop tart to remind me i live in a first world country 288% 289<glyph> yosomono: in fact, I'll turn this box of Cheese Nips and 290 this 3-liter bottle of Mountain Dew into a irc2web interface 291% 292<h3x> actually i have clothes on 293<h3x> believe it or not 294% 295<\broken:#openprojects> geez that tomg bot is in here again 296<\broken:#openprojects> didn't we ban it a couple of times already 297% 298<Yosomono> uh, move zig zamboni to push grandma cats down the stairs to protect her/him from the terrible secret of space, which is that she/he can't skate? 299% 300<washort> o/` once i was the king of spain o/` 301* Acapnotic throws a humble pie at washort 302% 303<bram> the more I get into the art of design, the more I design things like I'm seven years old 304<bram> 'I don't want to do things that way because it's too hard' 305<bram> 'I wanna do it like this because I understand it' 306<bram> 'I'm ignoring that because it's scary' 307<bram> 'I don't want to work with him because he's a poopy-head' 308<bram> 'I don't want to use this because it smells like poo' 309<bram> 'this is no fun any more, I'm going home' 310% 311<cube> Greetings, O Twisted One 312% 313<Forest> Someone please tell me that this thing about P3K and Perl 6 is just a sick April Fool's joke 314<glyph> Forest: what, print>> wasn't a big enough hint? 315% 316* moshez lives to workaround design decisions made by others. 317(-- after just proposing to implement IRC over HTTP via Zope.) 318% 319 <idcmp> /msg ry a/s/l 320% 321<glyph> okay, cvs is scaring me 322<det> glyph: when I was 5, when the other children were going as ninjas and dracula, I went as CVS! 323<glyph> det: you should have gone as SCCS 324<det> glyph: you gotta be a little cute to get the candy 325% 326<cube> If you are anal, and you love to be right all the time, C++ gives you a multitude of mostly untimportant details to fret about so you can feel good about yourself for getting them "right", while missing the big picture entirely 327% 328<cube> C++ extends the machine-efficiency requirement all the way up from 329 line-by-line implementation into entity abstraction as classes, it 330 corrupts far end of the coding spectrum with "efficiency" concerns. 331% 332<glyph> that's why I love IRC 333<glyph> you can't be late for IRC 334% 335<radix> uh oh. 336<radix> 'destroy here' isn't a good idea. :) 337% 338<radix> glyph: the problem with writing a framework for text universe is 339that text adventure authors want to do the craziest shit :) 340% 341<thirmite@efnet> are you jewish? 342<moshez> yes. 343<moshez> be afraid 344% 345<thirmite> btw, e, what are the girls like in .fi? 346<e@ircnet> bipedal, warm blooded, pink skinned, about 1.5-2.0 meters tall 347% 348<dash> jeffk isn't funny, the people who think he's real are funny. :) 349<thirmite> he isn't real?!? 350% 351<cyli> it'd be so cool. i'd feel all l33t and shit 352% 353<dash> if they had neural interfaces to computers, we'd both be dead by now 354% 355<skreech> I declare myself god 356<skreech> the end 357% 358<radix> GenericBoy is no more 359<radix> I killed him, and have taken his place 360<Acapnotic> radix: whadja do with the body? 361<det> Acapnotic: killed in a metophorical sense 362<radix> that's what you think. 363<Acapnotic> What happened to the metaphorical body? 364<det> Acapnotic: the metaphorical body is decaying at the bottom of lake washington 365<radix> that's what he thinks. 366% 367 <dnm:#lisp> i'm convinced the core of loop [the Common Lisp facility] is a n-dimensional singularity and 368 that the common macro people implement is merrely the tessaract to loop's hypercube. 369% 370<radix> I'm an at least somewhat-educated dope fiend 371% 372<jedin> I figured your lasers would be a good impetus to action. 373<glyph> Don't forget about them. 374<glyph> They're hovering, just over your head... where you can't see them. Remember that. 375<jedin> Okay. 376<jedin> Hm. That could be a cool theme for a new breakfast cereal! 377% 378<moshez> glyph: I don't know anything about reality. 379% 380<Acapnotic> There are *many* differences between Texas and yogurt. Texas is drier than yogurt. Texas is larger than any amount of yogurt I've seen in one place at a time. (or ALL the yogurt I've seen at ANY time). Eating Texas would be less enjoyable than eating yogurt. 381<Acapnotic> Texas does not come in eight ounce plastic containers with tinfoil lids. To the best of my knowledge, there is no "fruit on the bottom" version of Texas. Texas is not available in the dairy section of your grocer. Texas does not help fufill your daily dietary requirement of calcium. 382% 383<eAndroid> MAKE YOUR LOGO AL GORE ON A STICK 384% 385<dash> radix: the question is, do you _really_ want to do that? :) 386<radix> no, but I want to make other people do it 387% 388<Rainy-Day> i ascended several times.. once as a tourist without wishes or material transformations 389% 390<radix> dash: Hey, what do you think a good visual aid for a talk on anarcho-capitalism would be? 391<glyph> radix: a gun. 392<glyph> radix: correction: a gun and a big pile of money :) 393% 394<mothra> Most large software projects are disasters. Nothing new there. 395<dash> most large software projects use java or C++. not a coincidence. 396% 397<dash> the program isn't debugged until the last user is dead 398% 399<moshez> glyph: I prefer to think of it as a community project...since not every interface is equal 400<moshez> some interfaces are more equal then others. 401% 402<det> glyph: why not use xml? (only because it is sort of a python standard [dont kill me]) 403% 404<LiquidAngle> can you do socket programming with python ? 405<dash> boy can you _ever_ 406% 407<spiv> In python, you can, but in Java you can't. 408 [ this comment had context, but it's really just axiomatic --ed] 409% 410<faassen> I'm not a python luminary, I just play one on TV. :) 411% 412<h3x> but the point is, i dont have to juggle dlopen() bullshit 413<h3x> because that gets old real fast 414% 415<glyph> shapr-werk: I can't even imagine the hell of having to write java while quitting smoking. I am behind you 100% ;) 416<shapr-werk> glyph: yah, anyone in front of me has already been mauled :-) 417% 418<Krelin> glyph: You have created a powerful solution for which there are no problems. Everyone is impressed, but duly confused. 419% 420<radix> crack! *that's* what I need! 421% 422<glyph> I like writing code that overloads operators in python 423<e> get help 424% 425<Yosomono> rasterman is the millionth monkey 426% 427<solomon> john tesh get out of my head! 428% 429<dash> i want distributed everything 430<dash> yesterday 431% 432<parks> glyph please please dont jump on the P2P XML bandwagon 433<dash> parks: satan will be buying ice skates before glyph does that 434% 435<shapr> this is where I tell you to stop hyperfocussing on bad stuff and think about something nifty like metaclasses or sex 436% 437* itamar loves changing an object's own class at run time 438<snibril> itamar: and you eat little babies, too 439% 440<TQuid> So glyph is a master of the occult as well as the obscure. :) 441% 442<glyph> "What?" "Take the red continuation." "What?" "Take the blue continuation." "Huh?" "Take the red continuation." "What?"... 443% 444* rik cheers for twisted python 445<rik> it's the easiest network coding toolkit I've come across 446<rik> as soon as you have the flash of inspiration as to how it works, you'll not look back 447% 448<dnm> ugh. linear cosmologist fever. 449% 450<e> we have powers that reach beyond the pickle 451% 452<TQuid> "No one expects the python acquisition!" 453% 454<laotse> I'm sorry. I used to be sane. Then I learned Perl and now I'm like this. ;) 455<dash> laotse: that's my excuse too 456<dash> laotse: that, and 4 years of university CS 457% 458 <h3x> i get my best programming done in the nude 459% 460<timmy> what is the recommended way to do client sockets in python 461<e2d2@ircnet> timmy: a chainsaw! AHAHAHAHA! 462* e2d2@ircnet goes back to sleep 463% 464<Acapnotic> No more doc about twist-dee, needs another page or three... 465<Acapnotic> You call this an application server? This is a slide projector and a bedsheet! 466* Acapnotic is going to have to speak to Bob about this. 467% 468<phed> dash: that's the cool part of system programming, programming half-finished programs, and tell others you're finished 469% 470<dash> if i'm going to use an obscure language with poor system integration, it might as well be lisp 471% 472<radix> I feel so special when people quote me 473% 474<spiv> dash: so we need to wrap integers... Java does that too, so it can't be that bad ;) 475* dash doesn't know how to respond to that except with physical violence 476% 477<glyph> It's just like a method call, but ON FIRE AND UPSIDE DOWN!!! 478% 479<dash> design patterns in general are just java/c++ crutches 480<dash> which isn't to say they're useless. when your language is crippled you need crutches 481% 482<laotse> Java is the tell me when I've been bad language ;) 483% 484<e> so he is writing a python interpreter in python 485<firegod> dash: is he actually that evil? 486<dash> firegod: for glyph, this is relatively non-evil. 487% 488<gary> btw, my gcc compile line is gcc -o foo foo.o includes.o -lstdcxx is there I can cut that stdcxx out? My executables are like half a meg. 489<glyph> nope 490<glyph> if you didn't want your executables to be huge and slow for no reason, you could stop using c++ :) 491% 492<glyph> the industry average per programmer/day is 10 lines 493<gary> yeah I know. its sorta sad. 494<gary> have you ever wanted to, like, be part of the backstreet boys or something? It would probably make life quite easier. Or at least different. 495 [This is what C++ does to your brain, kids. -ed] 496% 497<red_one> PORK IS NOT A VERB. 498% 499* shapr reads market speak 500<shapr> Vertical navigation through business domain trees (classification trees). 501<shapr> Horizontal navigation through multidimensional classification trees. 502<shapr> I bet moshe wrote this advertising 503% 504<snibril> glyph: others do secret sex perversities, and you join #c++ 505% 506<jumpy> we are the knights who say INT! SHORT! and UNSIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGNNNNNNNNNNNEDDDDDDDDDDDDD LONNNNNNNNNGGGGGG! 507% 508<saint_go@efnet> Why? 509<dash> because C++ is an excellent language for doing slow and late projects in. :) 510<makk@efnet> dash: at least it's good for something. :) 511% 512KaraNiSuru: who needs a real live girl when you can get thousands of prettier girls displayed on a gorgeous 1365x768 resolution, 16.7 million color flat-panel plasma tv? 513% 514<radix> yeah, I saw that OBSOLETE_base attribute and thought to myself "Maybe glyph already tried this, and found that it sucks" 515% 516<jafo> Our fathers were our models for God. If they bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to be prepared for the possibility that God does not like you. 517% 518<Acapnotic> ... whenever I hear anything in this channel that smacks my brain three feet into kata, chances are that glyph is the one that said it 519% 520<hunter> ... I'm execfile()'ing a file provided by j random sysadmin, so I'm pretty much holding a gun to my head. 521% 522<deeptape> I just got a vision of a version of Gaunlet that pits Pythonistas against an endless horde of C++ and Java zealouts 523<deeptape> Red Hacker needs Source, Badly 524% 525--> java (dutkiewicz@91.portland-01-02rs.or.dial-access.att.net) has joined #python 526<java> yes 527<-- java (dutkiewicz@91.portland-01-02rs.or.dial-access.att.net) has left #python 528<glyph> goodbye, java 529<glyph> hehe, that's surprisingly satisfying to say 530% 531<glyph> dash! dash! he's our man! If he can't do it, we'll make him write in ASP until he dies! bwahahhaha 532<dash> i hate you, milkman glyph 533% 534<thirmite> i have <glyph> and <dash> both subbed to the one message: <tpy> $1- 535% 536<glyph> so thirmite 537<glyph> it sounds like you have some issues 538<thirmite> duh i've been hanging around #python for around 4 years 539<thirmite> i have every issue possible 540% 541<Acapnotic> glyph: why are you being an asshole and insisting on seven bits instead of eight, anyway? 542<glyph> Acapnotic: because I gave up that bit in exchange for eternal life 543% 544<churchr> XML wasn't invented. It was excreted. 545% 546<faassen> I'm not a PSU agent. 547% 548<thirmite> i *think* i have a girlfriend 549% 550<dash> roey: i've got some code you should look at 551<dash> roey: http://twistedmatrix.com/ 552<Acapnotic> dash: it's amazing how much you can make "I've got some code you 553should look at" sound like "do you have stairs in your house?" 554% 555<Mike_L> hmm ELF sounds complex =/ 556* Mike_L hates file formats 557<Mike_L> i suppose I could just make my bytecode file format based on XML 558% 559<glyph> I am *not* a PSU agent. 560% 561<dash> glyph: nice people dont name functions "b1282int" 562% 563<jemfinch> I mean, if GNU wants everything to use guile, they should probably make it suck less. 564% 565<dash> i feel the power of the confusatron 566% 567<Yosomono> [Ying] is a fantastic artist, that's for certain. 568% 569<shapr> so, is the twisted crowd moving to Oz? 570<dash> shapr: no. Oz is coming to _us_ 571% 572<h3x> why dosent someone write a rfc or w3 spec on server push text fields? 573<Acapnotic> look, everybody knows that "push" had it's chance, and it flunked. Pushing failed. Pushing is not the answer. 574<dash> Acapnotic: SHOVING IS THE ANSWER 575<Acapnotic> yes, shoving is the answer. We must have shoving streaming media. "I am the shover transport -- I push the newsfeed down their throats." 576% 577<mitiege> dash: where do you go to school? 578<tpck> mitiege: PSU 579<mitiege> tpck: didn't faassen go there too? 580% 581<eihrul> .NET is kinda the quickening 582% 583<shapr> we're all CODEpendant. 584% 585<robbe@ircnet> AttributeError: CMD 586<robbe@ircnet> what is here the failure?!? 587<radix> robbe: the 'cmd' object doesn't have a member named CMD 588<robbe@ircnet> radix: how i can make it? 589<radix> robbe: set us up the bomb 590% 591<M-x> sure, excessive use of the Emacs causes social problems 592<M-x> in understanding the trivial problems other people have 593<M-x> like you see them indenting a whole file of source code manually, or jumping between make output and trying to find the offending line 594% 595<dash> "COM Error: Errors occurred" 596* dash attacks ASP with a rusty hacksaw blade 597% 598<lyn:#lisp> making things fast generally seems to involve trading space for time 599<dan`b:#lisp> not so! you're thinking like a typical lisp programer 600<dan`b:#lisp> you can also trade correctness, like any self-respecting C hacker 601% 602<shapr> dash: I know Python adds sanity points to me. 603<dash> shapr: reading glyph's code does not 604% 605<tireg> i see the light!! 606<tireg> AND IT BURNS! 607<dash> tireg: welcome to python 608% 609<Acapnotic> jemfinch: What's to parse? A numeric code, perhaps a chicken, and some arguments 610% 611<Acapnotic> dash: yes, about that, do you have anything besides spam? 612<dash> Acapnotic: got spam, spam, internet, enterprise, and spam 613<dash> Acapnotic: that doesn't got _much_ spam 614% 615<itamar> if moshez ever gets into the Python RPG he'll have "different definitions of basic concepts leads to conflicts with everyone" as a disadvantage 616% 617<e@ircnet> meikan adsl:n asennus makso sentaan muistaakseni 3000 ja silta 618sedalta meni 10min :) 619<e@ircnet> oops, wrong channel 620<radix> eek 621<radix> scary words 622<dash> radix: ph34r the ph1nn1sh! 623% 624<matsaleh> glyph has been *trying* to bring me up to speed on twisted 625<matsaleh> all I know is that if he gets any smarter i'm in trouble 626<dash> matsaleh: we already are, i think 627% 628<moshez> glyph: what's Twisted Matrix Laboratories? 629<dash> moshez: the only enemy the PSU fears 630% 631<radix> scripts are just usually short programs that do a very specific thing 632<radix> that's why a lot of us people who use interpreted languages hate it when someone calls our language a "Scripting language" ;) 633<radix> (I mean, look at Twisted and call it a "script" with a straight face) 634% 635<Afterglow> glyth: what's odd is i keep getting a segfault and i don't know why 636<glyph> Afterglow: are you using C? 637<Afterglow> yes 638<glyph> Afterglow: ah. There's your problem. 639% 640<peryklez> should i learn python? 641<moshez> peryklez: no. instead, you should be an anarcho-vegeterian. 642<moshez> peryklez: here, see this channel? Do you ever see us talking about Python? No! Because Python sucks. 643<glyph> peryklez: Yes. You should learn python. 644<glyph> peryklez: Also, stay away from crack cocaine, which moshez is evidently smoking... 645% 646<radix> well, running it works well :> 647<glyph> radix: yeah, but don't ask what it does because it'll KILL YOU WITH 648ITS TEETH 649% 650<dnm_> Twisted tickles my high-level competent software design and concisely functional code that does something useful which was done poorly elsewhere in comparison bones. 651% 652<snibril> radix: i met some _professional_ (or supposed-to-be) admins that had probs even with "ldd" 653<dash> snibril: so, uh.... what did these guys _do_? 654<snibril> dash: ask stupid qs 655% 656<e@ircnet> on the internet the concepts of time and space lose meaning 657% 658<matsaleh> well, maybe we should evangelize a bit... 659<matsaleh> one thing to do would be to convince some kind of public site - techie oriented - to use twisted in some implementation 660<glyph> any ideas come to mind? 661<matsaleh> start small... google? :) 662% 663<radix> I was drinking tea before this job 664% 665<LcModerator:#live> <radix> have you heard of Twisted? Did you know that TwistedMatrix Laboratories is the only feared enemy of the PSU? 666<gvanrossum:#live> radix: I've heard of Twisted and even downloaded his code once, but I couldn't understand one bit of it. Twisted, if you're here, sorry, but that's a fact. 667<gvanrossum:#live> The PSU, of course, doesn't exist. 668<dash:#python> radix: you're a bad, bad boy 669% 670<snibril> guido, when will you stop calling python a scripting language? ;) 671% 672<gvanrossum:#live> zilch: I'm a big fan of wxPython [...] 673<radix:#python> I no longer respect that man 674% 675<gvanrossum:#live> What afro? 676% 677<dash> jenn: you DONT FEEL LIKE PROGRAMMING? what's WRONG with you?? 678% 679<Erwin> #python FAQ: How do I build X? A: Wait for twisted.X. 680% 681<thirmite> i'm in the psu! 682% 683<e> most people on irc are professional and shit. 684% 685<dash> glyph: maybe that'd stop, if we stopped denying that the PSU is real and is actually coordina~~4%~~..~*'#n`+>~~.] 686<-- dash has quit 687% 688<rbm> glyph: Now I want to get more to your side of the darkness >:-> 689% 690* Nafai will vouch for the fact of glyph's being the master of the obscure 691% 692<churchr> glyph: So why can't you make that into a database? 693<glyph> churchr: I will set you on fire. 694% 695<skreech> I'm gonna kinda miss code red when its gone, my webpage has never gotten this many hits before 696% 697<Acapnotic> garble. if I don't find a twisted.spread example soon, I might try to figure out what .spread is supposed to do by looking at the source directly 698<Acapnotic> which would probably be unhealthy 699<dash> Acapnotic: hey! i've been reading the source for the past month! didididididn't bother me at all! 700* dash giggles 701% 702<Acapnotic> hmm. I wonder what would happen if you fed .bash_history to megahal and then set that as your shell. 703% 704<thirmite> the pull to IRC is so much less now i have my drivers license 705<dash> thirmite: so why are you telling _us_ that? ;) 706<thirmite> dash: who else am i gonna tell? :) 707% 708<thirmite> faassen: it was on the internet 709<faassen> thirmite: don't use the internet. 710<thirmite> i love the internet 711<h3x> pike, the language of your internet 712<Jii> what's internet? 713% 714<glyph> HELP ME SMALL CHILD I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CREATE A WEB SERVER BUT I HAVE BECOME LOST 715% 716<glyph> I *hate* thinking. 717% 718<Acapnotic> Unlike BASIC, Python doesn't have circle-drawing and paint-fill operations either. 719% 720* glyph returns 721* rik wonders what glyph returns 722<radix> rik: NOT_DONE_YET 723% 724<thirmite> dash: i don't really IRC while drunk *anymore* 725% 726<_pHI_> what is twised.words? and why did i just create an account :) ? 727% 728<churchr> I don't know why you guys want to hurt people. 729<glyph> churchr: money, usually 730<dash> glyph: wow, i can get _paid_ to hurt people? 731<dash> they didn't mention this at Career Day 732% 733<glyph> ddent, the man who was born to program in python, but doesn't 734<dash> glyph: you're thinking of his evil twin, "ndent". 735<shapr> Python as Guido and ndent did. 736% 737<shapr> I am an object! 738% 739<glyph> you know, if I'm going to develop a massive cult of personality, I need to have a better website 740% 741<Inhibitor> this is commercial software - there are no security holes 742<Inhibitor> not like your crappy open source - written by students - stuff 743<glyph> right, I had forgotten 744% 745<e@ircnet> i have been known to occasionally infact say "internet". 746% 747<Yosomono@efnet> The next version of Shapr 0.96 will have integrated Twisted support. 748% 749<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: the colors! the colors! they're burning my eyes! 750% 751* shapr goes into his a capella techno rendition of "mission impossible" 752<shapr> doodle oooo.... doodlee ooo!! 753<radix> doodlee ooo?? 754<radix> I don't remember that part 755<shapr> radix: yah, that's at the beginning 756<bitPoet> radix: that's before the duh-duh-duhduh-duh-duh-duhduh part 757% 758<bram> talking about the engineering of p2p apps is like talking about the engineering of red cars 759% 760<thirmite> well the only way i could think of a girl turning me into a vegetarian is by offering me continous sexual favours, but that wouldn't work on glyph because he has some sort of dignity 761% 762<glyph> no land wars in asia or sicilian blood feuds 763<glyph> or threads 764% 765<glyph> it's easy to be dogmatic when you're right and everyone else is an idiot 766% 767<e@ircnet> thirmite: we added window manager support to bridgette. 768<thirmite> e: i hope you're drunk 769% 770<e@ircnet> error handling is important, arguing tha silent failure is ok for "production systems" does not alleviate problems when something goes wrong with "production systems" :) 771% 772<h3x> everybody is left of something 773% 774<glyph> but one person's identity could have multiple perspectives 775<e@ircnet> multiple perspective disorder 776% 777<e@ircnet> glyph: that would make twisted the most buzzword compliant application server platform known to man! 778% 779<glyph> "Fetch me my internet pants." 780% 781<moshez> What is programming, if not fighting a world of idiotic design decisions? 782<moshez> And where can you find design decisions more idiotic? 783<glyph> moshez: landscaping 784<moshez> glyph: hmmm......point. 785% 786<eAndroid> Guido has been on crack for a while. 787<eAndroid> I think he bought some cheap stuff, that's all 788% 789<dash> this feels like saving christmas from santa claus 790 [on trying to prevent Guido from making python less dynamic] 791% 792<e@ircnet> fwiw writing a sexp parser in virtually any language is easier than learning to use xml libraries for that platform. 793% 794* Blackb|rd has been spoiled by years of C and C++ and the hideous exposition to Java 1.0.2 795<radix> Blackb|rd: not "spoiled", "mentally mutilated" 796% 797<glyph> CHECKED IN 798<radix> RUN! 799<glyph> GENERATE CODE! 800* dash runs around in circles screaming, then falls over 801<glyph> INTRODUCE INSTABILITY! 802<glyph> SUDDEN EXIT! 803% 804<adu> i'm a great hacker, but i'm horrible at thinking of things to hack 805<glyph> adu: you are my new best friend 806% 807<dash> wal-mart, purveyor of fine $9.48 chinese keyboards 808% 809<itamar|nyc> think positive thoughst and then cat /dev/urandom > file 810% 811* radix would rather go see glyph than Linus :-) 812<Viiru> radix: Why? 813% 814<dash> radix: you laugh a bit too quickly for someone who's working with a 815project with a business plan based on a pokey cartoon 816% 817<moshez> If I wanted to code with syntax highlighting, I'd just take LSD. 'My, what a green comment' 818% 819<dreid> twisted can do pretty much anything if glyph gets drunk enough 820% 821<deltab> glyph: there's something strangely fitting about being able to "from internet import delay" 822% 823<TQuid> Jesus shit. Is there anything twisted doesn't do, or at least doesn't intend to do? 824<dash> tquid: XML. 825% 826<Acapnotic> What do you get out of writing docstrings if you can't confuse, mislead, and infuriate your audience? 827% 828<gt3> i thought i had mono once for an entire year, turned out it was cuz i was using Perl 829% 830<dash> det: our chief weapons are misinformation and asynchronous networking 831<det> dash: at least you can deliver it at maximum effieciency 832% 833<dash> (breaking encapsulation for fun and profit since 1998!) 834% 835<dash> bask in the rosy glow of my ignorance 836% 837<Tv> So, now there's my way, a simpler way, _and_ the correct way? I'm getting confused. 838<Tv> Back when I was a youngster, there was just my way and the correct way :) 839% 840<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: you're telling me I'm 6 months behind you? 841<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: that makes sense, considering the time lag between film releases in the US and Japan =) 842% 843<Yosomono@efnet> Twisted: Bring Out Yer Dead (Paradigms) 844% 845<Yosomono@efnet> Fuck, what's this world coming to? 846<thirmite> yosomono: obviously something less than good. 847% 848<Tv> Mwahahaa! 849<Tv> I can encode and decode arbitrary ASN.1 structures :) 850<e@ircnet> get help 851% 852<wondr> ever since they moved over to twisted google has seemed a little bit flaky 853% 854<itamar|nyc> twisted is what medusa should've been, I think 855% 856<moshez> glyph: yes, TCP connection forwarder is good. 857<illume> why not twisted.internet.tcp_forwarder then? 858<moshez> illume: because I wanted to use the word "stupid" in code. 859% 860e2d2 (~erno@2002:d432:8efa:0:0:0:0:1) joined on ircnet 861<e2d2@ircnet> internet 6! 862% 863<dash> web in my head get it out get it out 864% 865<radix> yosomono: One of these days, I'm going to actually see what you do 866<Yosomono> radix: You will turn to stone almost immediately 867% 868<mothra> i'm not sexist, women are just a pain in the ass 869% 870<eAndroid> win still has fork though right? 871<jepler> no 872<eAndroid> hmm. no wonder my daemons don't work 873% 874<jedin> Know any good informational/instructional sites on Prolog? 875<glyph> kill yourself now 876<jedin> But I just vacuumed! 877% 878<redoz> 2 years? 879<glyph> redoz: I've been working on twisted for a while 880<redoz> apparantly 881<chrchr> glyph: Most people in this channel haven't even been _alive_ for two years. 882% 883<glyph> BLOCKING OPERATIONS ARE NEVER VALID! 884<glyph> HAVE YOU SET YOUR SOCKET'S BLOCKING FLAG TO ZERO SMALL CHILD?? 885% 886<shapr> I've never used a small child as a flag. 887<shapr> not even once. 888<glyph> shapr: MAKE SURE YOU BRING LOTS OF STAPLES! 889% 890<mothra> cars have the same beauty of form as women, without the nagging 891<glyph> mothra: maybe your issues with women stem from that misunderstanding 892<glyph> mothra: to start, women are *soft*, whereas cars are not 893% 894<radix> so are you coming to IPC10? 895<dash> if you, me, moshez, and glyph end up in the same room though, we may 896assemble into a giant robot and lay waste to virginia 897<dash> and that's always inconvenient 898% 899<mbac> would it be foolish of me to wish java banished to the depths of hell and in it's place is python? 900% 901<Rainy-Day> dash: i think you know what it means but for odd reasons make it 902look like you don't :P 903<radix> Rainy-Day: he does that a lot 904<radix> :> 905<Rainy-Day> yeah 906<Rainy-Day> it's annoying as hell! 907<dash> Rainy-Day: is it really? 908<Rainy-Day> yep.. 909<dash> my plan has succeeded!! 910% 911<bitPoet> all of twisted is probably like 3 lines of apl 912% 913<radix> thirmite: we're not a 3rd world country. =) 914<dash> radix: not this week anyway 915% 916<glyph> let's have some more corporations 917<glyph> then we can absolve all individuals acting on their behalf of 918responsibility and collude with the government to steal money! 919<dash> glyph: YES! where do i sign up? 920<glyph> dash: www.microsoft.com, look for "passport" 921% 922<jafo> If java had real garbage-collection, it would delete most programs 923before it executed them. 924% 925<dash> (hacking implies the use of an edged tool, java isn't sharp ;) 926% 927(context: http://yellow5.com/pokey/archive/index76.html) 928[glyph] pokey's taste for the cereal reminds me of my own preference for python :-) 929[glyph] "GLYPH THEY ARE USING WOOD GLUE AS AN OBJECT MODEL!" 930[glyph] "I WANT ANOTHER INSTANCE" 931% 932<liiwi> hrmpf. python compared to to perl is like c++ compared to c 933<dash> liiwi: so, which are you implying? that C++ is a good thing, or that 934python is a bad thing? 935<dash> liiwi: either way we have to kill you, i think 936% 937<radix> It's gonna take a lot of effort ripping reality apart 938<glyph> it's going to be almost as hard to stand idly by while you do so :-) 939<radix> I kill you! 940<glyph> no, you kill my CODE :-) 941% 942<Rainy-Day> no? jesus was like, love thy neighbour and shit 943% 944<spiv> NeuroMorphus: That's not really meaningful, though. 945<NeuroMorphus> spiv: it's not a matter of meaning, it's an assignment 946% 947<radix> man, Rune better kick ass 948<radix> this demo I'm downloading is *90MB* 949<radix> games are so huge these days 950<radix> In my time a game that filled up a whole 1.4MB diskette was big! 951<Erwin> You know what else I noticed? Today's 21" monitors are bigger than 952yesterday's 14" monitors :) 953<radix> bah :) 954% 955<bitPoet> the full name of the enterprise is probably something buzzword- 956compliant like "scalable enterprise java interspacial XML warp drive", it's 957just "enterprise" for short :-) 958% 959<dnm> Someone quote me already. 960<dnm> I'm trying to plithy. 961% 962<skreech> some say there is documentation in them there hills 963% 964<Acapnotic> "Required course materials: 1 copy of 'Java and You', an installation of JBuilder+, and a HID vomit-proofing kit for each workstation you will use." 965% 966<glyph> jafo: Are you ircing as you *DRIVE*!? 967<dash> glyph: well, duh 968<dash> glyph: cant pull over every time you want to say something 969% 970<glyph> h3x: so... you're a professional extortionist? 971<h3x> pretty much 972<glyph> h3x: do you offer professional apprenticeships? 973<h3x> i should 974<dash> glyph: gah, you beat me to it 975% 976<glyph> dash: So while we're on the subject, are there features you feel the PB protocol lacks at its lowest level that you might find useful? 977<Acapnotic> (Like the "YOU FUCKED UP AN SUBCLASSED THE WRONG THING, MORON!" feature? :) 978<glyph> Acapnotic: If python had decent metaclasses, ViewPoint would scream profanity at you personally, but until that time, I'll have to do it by proxy. 979<glyph> Acapnotic: Do you have a phone in your house? ;-) 980<Acapnotic> glyph: Yeah, it's right by the stairs. Why do you ask? 981% 982<itamar> stuouid keyboard hates me 983% 984<Nanosecond> And BTW, we taliban guys use Macs. All of us. 985% 986<Gand> <sigh> ... first day as a python programer and already I have to start writing my own functions ... 987% 988<Acapnotic> My computer is playing reggae out of thin air! 989% 990<e@ircnet> pcmC0D0c pcmC0D0p pcmC0D1p pcmC0D2c pcmC0D2p 991<glyph> e: are those the lyrics to some weird finnish music? 992<e@ircnet> glyph: not yet 993% 994<dash> guess there's a fine line between "tilting at windmills" and "hitting the fan" 995% 996<thirmite> what's a web widget?? 997<glyph> thirmite: internet on a stick, on fire 998<Acapnotic> with web sauce! 999% 1000<thirmite> bea: how are you? 1001<bea> thirmite: not bored 1002<thirmite> then why are you on IRC? ;) 1003% 1004<Acapnotic> something's wrong, none of the tests failed 1005% 1006<Tenshihan> then where does modular programming come from? 1007<dash> Tenshihan: the lesser magellanic cloud 1008<glyph> dash: the origin of the modular programming technique is classified! 1009% 1010<Rugal> Do I have to study something else in order to use twisted? i mean, is 1011twisted to python how C++ is to java? 1012% 1013[Just another night in #Python... -ed] 1014* X86BSD-H throws a ball of yarn in front of rik 1015* rik watches it bounce past 1016* X86BSD-H needs to get a G4 PB 1017* dreid beats system-wide fetchmail with a stick 1018* rik looks at X86BSD-H 1019% 1020<radix> but a year of python programming is like 5 years of C programming 1021<radix> because in those 5 years of C programming about 4 of them are dealing 1022with memory management 1023% 1024--> bdash (mark21rowe@chch-d109.connections.net.nz) has joined #python 1025<Deep6> oh no! its the lower grade dash! 1026% 1027<glyph> dash: let me put it another way -- I will upgrade to 2.2, if for no 1028other reason than to bitch on clp. 1029% 1030<det> pokey reminds me of yosomono 1031<det> except on drugs 1032% 1033<radix> it's kind of interesting to think about twisted philosophically 1034<radix> it's basically a bunch of APIs layered on top of each other 1035<radix> each one making a task easier to do 1036<dreid> until finally trained monkeys can do it 1037<dreid> "Twisted, the framework of a million monkeys with typewriters." 1038% 1039<radix> rep's just this happy little lisp 1040<radix> and CL is the giant living on the mountain 1041<radix> rarraa I'm 8MB! 1042% 1043<radix> man, everyone else has cool programming fathers but me 1044<radix> I'm going to be a cool programming father to a kid some day 1045<dash> radix: i'm going to have a lot of kids and teach them all to play quake. 1046<dash> radix: we'll be the best clan in the state. 1047% 1048<glyph> oooh 1049<glyph> OOOH 1050<radix> oh shit 1051<radix> glyph just had an idea 1052% 1053<glyph> It's interesting that people often say "Hey, I'm looking for 1054something to work on!" 1055<glyph> then someone else says "Glyph's code needs a little help." then 1056the original asker says "SWEET MARY MOTHER OF GOD I'M NOT TOUCHING THAT! 1057I mean, uh, that's too much work or I'm not good at it. Or something." 1058[...] 1059<tpck> You want me to read and understand and then rewrite a 795 line 1060piece of code that contains doc strings like "WARNING! This source code 1061for this method may cause your eyeballs to melt." 1062% 1063<itamar> ok, it's JAVA TIME FOR BOYS AND GIRLS 1064% 1065<itamar> actually, I don't have the patience for java right now 1066% 1067<sayke> Acapnotic: don't make it twisted-specific 1068<dash> sayke: pffft 1069<dash> sayke: twisted isn't specific 1070% 1071<tpck> merriam-webster is nothing to me 1072% 1073<kingkill> glyph: i was under the impression you didn't like twisted 1074% 1075<amien@efnet> ? swing is bad? :) 1076% 1077<e2d2@ircnet> don't use threads :) 1078<glyph> e2d2: it's java... you don't really have an option 1079<e2d2@ircnet> don't use java :) 1080<glyph> e2d2: sage words 1081% 1082*** Signoff: glyph[Ping timeout for glyph] 1083*** glyph joined channel #python 1084 * Nafai wonders if glyph is really there 1085<Yosomono> He's never really been "all there" 1086<Acapnotic> glyph is never *really* there, but sometimes the probablitiy 1087becomes high enough that he influences internet. 1088<Yosomono> He's like an electron cloud. 1089<Yosomono> You can't really tell where he is at a given moment, just a 1090probability. 1091<Yosomono> Also, you can't tell both where he is AND how much coding he's 1092doing at the same time. 1093<Yosomono> This is the Glyphenberg Uncertainty principle 1094% 1095<glyph> I probably shouldn't think of it as an accomplishment that I manage 1096to cancel all of my social- and entertainment-oriented engagements on friday 1097night so I can work 1098% 1099<flippo> When programming languages started using four-letter names, APL was 1100doomed. 1101% 1102<datazone> glyph: you are stupid 1103% 1104<radix> continuations make me want to hurt you, dash 1105<dash> continuations made me want to hurt a lot of people 1106% 1107<radix> you're a pragmatic bastard, dash :) 1108% 1109<mbac> strange 1110<mbac> all my life i've hated object oriented programming 1111<mbac> when the problem was simply that i was using C++ 1112% 1113<MoonFallen> how well does twisted work with xml? 1114<radix> MoonFallen: PUT YOUR FACE INTO THE JELLY 1115% 1116<radix> MoonFallen: well, there is a very simple xml-rpc implementation 1117<radix> MoonFallen: but we generally don't like to talk about it 1118% 1119<Acapnotic> When you're holding an automatic weapon, a remarkable number of things become your choice. 1120% 1121<dash> if perl is a swiss army chainsaw, this is a dynamically reconfigurable 1122nanosword 1123% 1124<radix> skreech: hey guess what! 1125<skreech> what 1126<radix> skreech: exciting night tonight 1127<skreech> radix: women? 1128<radix> skreech: twisted release! =D 1129<skreech> radix: YES!!!!!!!!!! 1130<radix> hee hee 1131<radix> I know you live for these moments, skreech 1132<skreech> VROOOM 1133<skreech> Lemme get my Twisted-Release-socks 1134<skreech> and noisemakers 1135% 1136<glyph> backinasec,Ibrokemyspacebar 1137% 1138Let the record show that on Saturday, November 24th 2001, at 8:38 PM UTC, 1139Glyph Lefkowitz did speak thusly: 1140 1141 "OK. I have a crack-laden idea. 1142 or perhaps a crack-destroying id 1143 Deferreds are confusing as hell 1144 Let's just use threads." 1145% 1146<radix> I HATE METAPHORS 1147% 1148<dash> wow. this code does something highly entertaining, but nowhere near correct 1149% 1150<skreech> I can feel my brain 1151% 1152<nikon_> i want to live in a country thats run by beautiful large breasted women 1153% 1154<itamar> def revenueGenerator(): 1155<itamar> yield cash 1156% 1157<mothra> one day i want my life to be so automated that getting out of bed will 1158be a configuration option 1159% 1160<moshez_> I love portraying prejudices 1161% 1162<skreech> its only 10:40pm here 1163<skreech> everyones going to *sleep?* 1164<Intention> I am staying up! There is much to read on the web. 1165% 1166[in regards to http://www.askemos.org/] 1167<glyph> he is *completely* insane :) 1168<dash> glyph: yes 1169<dash> glyph: i hope he IRCs 1170<dash> this seems like a person i could hurl abuse at for hours 1171% 1172<e2d2@ircnet> verwilst: debugging is easier when you read the error messages :) 1173% 1174[dreid] i'd like to learn Forth at some point also 1175[dash] save it for last 1176[dash] forth has the power to destroy minds 1177[dreid] sorta the snowcrash of programming languages? 1178% 1179<moshez_> dash: I'm a very nice man, except in hypothetical situations 1180% 1181<Intention> Moral: HOORAY FOR PYTHON. IT CAN GET YOU LAID. 1182% 1183<glyph> steve: Are you the creator of the Grease(TM) Plan for Internet Success? 1184<steve> glpyh: i'm just a vessel for Grease 1185% 1186<Intention> Twisted did raise me from the dead after two weeks. It is a miracle 1187 of software engineering. 1188% 1189<Kuja> Wow twisted can do all that. 1190% 1191<radix> Thain: I think the point is that you'd be hacking C code, not python 1192<Thain> but c is easy...what's your point? 1193% 1194<chrchr> dsmith: Twisted is neat, but unfortunately, it's not object-oriented. 1195% 1196<datazone> twisted is madness 1197% 1198<skreech> glyph: SUDDEN INTeRNET!! 1199% 1200<Pahan> hunter2: RedHat is an evil distro of death! How could you not know this? 1201<hunter2> Pahan: um, as a former employee and current stockholder, I probably 1202didn't know due to brainwashing. :) 1203<Pahan> hunter2: Oh. 1204% 1205<itamar> jail time and 50K fines are great marketing tools 1206% 1207<mcc> My justification for java's existence is "it's not quite as bad as c++" 1208% 1209Broadcast Message from carmstro@zaibach 1210 (/dev/pts/21) at 2:24 ... 1211 1212who needs IRC when you can w4llx0r 1213% 1214* the internet 1215% 1216<itamar> DIE 1217% 1218* dash holds up his "WILL WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS FOR FOOD" sign 1219* Nafai holds up his "WILL FOLLOW AROUND dash TO WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS" sign 1220* Nafai holds up underneath a sign reading "HOPING HE MAY ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING" 1221% 1222<comatoast> hm, you could join #artois on DALnet if you're interested in making 1223a version of C++ that doesn't suck 1224<dash> comatoast: uh 1225<dash> comatoast: i am experiencing extreme cognitive dissonance 1226% 1227<resolve> we are the freedom police! you must stop this happyness right now. 1228% 1229<jafo> I used to hang out with this chick that ran a BBS. 1230<jafo> She had a great baud. 1231% 1232<__funky__> so where's the real python channel? 1233% 1234<internet> e 1235% 1236<glyph> Actually, they all need for Twisted. They burn for it in the very 1237core of their souls, like a vampire's thirst for blood. Programmers NEED 1238twisted; existance without it is a pale shadow of the righteous glory that 1239the Twisted hacker can achieve. 1240% 1241<chrchr> I'll like anything for money. 1242% 1243<thirmite_> radix: you dropped out? 1244<radix> thirmite: yeah. 1245<thirmite_> <GenericBoy> yay i am at college;<radix> #python has made me cynical 1246i hate life 1247% 1248<sayke> dash: i wasn't sure what to call the system daemon/service/kernel 1249module/things, so i called them "gods" and made them into a pantheon. i 1250then made a creation myth as a metaphor for the system boot process, which 1251i combined with a programming-as-magik analogy to form a user interface 1252vocabulary roughly reminiscent of, well, crowleyian wizardry. 1253<dash> sayke: you are a special and unique person 1254% 1255<itamar> I want to kill someone 1256<glyph> Why? 1257<itamar> java 1258% 1259<moshez> "I give thy soul to the gods of the web, may they take this offering and grant us sane protocols" 1260% 1261<moshez> the only reason to get a life is to get a girl 1262<moshez> I'm hoping to get a girl without the seemingly mandatory life thing 1263<itamar> yeah? how? 1264<moshez> itamar: no specific plans 1265<moshez> just random hopes ;-) 1266% 1267<Intention> KRIS KROSS'LL MAKE YOU LONGJMP SETJMP 1268% 1269<glyph> You should want me dead, you'll get all my stuff. 1270<cyli> I don't want you dead -- I get all your stuff anyway. 1271% 1272<thirmite_> if you had 100k to spend on an engine why would you make a game? :) 1273<radix> thirmite: so you can make a million dollars off of it 1274<thirmite_> radix: i'd still rather buy a dedicated server in the US that did 1275nothing but email dash spam on c++ 1276% 1277<dash> i remember those days. 1278<dash> the world was cold and without hope.... 1279<dash> twisted had not been released yet. 1280% 1281* dash feels the idea "3d postgres-db visualisation with twisted, pyopengl, and pygame" waft through his brain 1282<glyph> dash: uh-oh, you've caught the asbahr wave 1283% 1284<itamar> who is megahal? 1285<itamar> does he do bar-mitzvahs? 1286% 1287<radix> I'm fighting a huge cat with breasts 1288<spiv> radix: Congratulations. I think. 1289<e> i have trouble imagining how you fight with breasts 1290% 1291<sayke> i moved left, [the cow] moved left. i moved right, [the cow] moved 1292right. i yelled "WHY ARE YOU IN MY WAY? MOVE!!", and waited a second for it to 1293concoct a reply. when none was forthcoming, i dropped into stance and kicked 1294it in the nose. 1295% 1296<dash> i can think of ways to do it but they're mostly evil. what are you doing? 1297% 1298<thirmite> i want one of those jobs where you get people out of cults 1299- pause - 1300<thirmite> by blowing up cult headquarters 1301% 1302<glyph> I love the fact that there's apparently a text-based Tribes-2 deathmatch going on interspersed with the argument though. 1303% 1304<Darkvise> I guess you could say that Windows and Linux are like two different chicks. Windows gets along with most people and it knows how to party but she's been with so many guys that you dont know what virus she might be carrying, and Linux could be some nerdy chick who may not seem that attractive on the outside but she's not shallow and braindead like Windows. 1305% 1306<tenth> One of our prospective clients has been asking about using MSSQL for his database 1307<tenth> He can use whatever he wants. MSSQL just isn't currently supported. (So if it wakes him up in the dark hours of the morning with shrill, piping calls and cries of "Yig! Yig!" and immerses him in sanity-shattering cosmic horror, which MSSQL 6.7 has been known to do, he can't call tech support about it.) 1308<tenth> "Okay... What version of BusinessMind are you using? Good... okay, what database are you using? Hmm... Well, what does it say at the top of the window? Is it a red border, or a blue border, or a shimmering band of tones and shades seeming only barely within the reach of human eyes, both confusing and terrible to look upon? Colour Out Of Space? yeah, sorry, we don't support that one. You should get MySQL." 1309<glyph> Warning! Kill songs unsung while still unheard [y/N]? 1310<tenth> "Please enter the number of songs you wish to kill (up to the maximum displayed next to the field) and click the Yellow Sign to continue." 1311<tenth> BusinessMind For Those Who Cannot Be Named 1312% 1313<glyph> *whew* 1314<glyph> took the call and emerged testicles intact. 1315* dash points out to glyph, needlessly, that he has issues 1316<radix> dash: I think they're calling them "women" these days 1317% 1318<johs> Oh, please. Threads ownz j00. 1319% 1320<ThreeSeas> maybe it's be easier if I used te metaphor of the matrix characters? 1321<dash> ThreeSeas: no 1322% 1323<chrchr> radix: A software engineer is somebody who can extend a system without reading any code. 1324% 1325<glyph> funny. I'm looking at twistedmatrix.com right now and the most recent 1326version is still 0.13.0 1327<radix> :P 1328<radix> glyph: find a QOTR 1329% 1330<glyph> dash: Isn't "efficiency" supposed to be your department? :) 1331<dash> glyph: "crack" is my department. 1332 * radix gets depressed because his department is "bitch" 1333% 1334<radix> What the hell was I thinking? 1335<dash> radix: get used to that feeling 1336<dash> that feeling is called "design" ;) 1337% 1338<Nafai> Wait. I think I got it to work! 1339<Nafai> YAY 1340<Nafai> w00t! 1341<Nafai> Houston, we have a contact manager! 1342<glyph> Nafai: austin. 1343% 1344<itamar> two more webmonkey days, and then I'm off to the USA 1345* shapr hands a web-banana to itamar 1346<desaster@ircnet> my god, the banana is full of ads 1347% 1348<cheeser> i think the general method of developing address books is to write a random number generator and use that as input for any decision making. 1349% 1350<glyph> e: look upon my work, o kings, and despair! 1351* e@ircnet viewcvs'es 1352<glyph> e: aren't you going to "viewcvs and despair"? ;) 1353<e@ircnet> i will despair once i see it. 1354% 1355<e@ircnet> when i die i want to be dried into a scary looking dried up corpse and be used to scare young children 1356% 1357<Acapnotic> he just logged the fact that he got r3wt0rz3d 1358<radix> he's on windows 1359<radix> it comes pre-rewted 1360% 1361<itamar> we should lock z3p up in a protocol factory 1362<z3p> self.factory.stopFactory(); self.factory.letMeEscape() 1363% 1364<pjarks> today is a good day to install zope 1365% 1366<faassen> I mean, geez, the guy thinks there is a conspiracy of programmers! a conspiracy 1367related to programming!! 1368<faassen> who'd have ever thought of that? :) 1369% 1370<radix> I am just the bombest dude in the world 1371% 1372"Alarm Sounds Like" -- Whoop Whoop 1373% 1374<noa> did anyone cause the alarm to go off just to see what it sounds like? 1375% 1376<ZC-Matt> You you *can* take an unwrapped object and stash it in a C module, poised to leap out at any unsuspecting transaction that wanders by. 1377<zigg> ooo, above my head. 1378<JimFulton> mine too. ;) 1379% 1380--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to dash 1381<dash> magc35us: you've got 30 seconds to be witty, relevant, or at least apologetic 1382% 1383<Intention> How EXACTLY are cameras used to keep planes from hitting skyscrapers? Do they have laser attatchments? 1384% 1385<draukuWORK> moshez, i signed the zope contributors agreement today... there goes my first born 1386<draukuWORK> or any first born i may borrow 1387% 1388<dash> glyph: go to #lisp and ask about relative pathnames. :) 1389<chrchr> dash: Don't make him do that. 1390<dash> chrchr: he knows better 1391% 1392<Nafai> What to do, what to do. 1393<Nafai> No class at all next week! 1394* glyph gets the "documentation" hat and starts running after Nafai 1395<Nafai> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 1396* Nafai jumps on the snowboard and takes off 1397% 1398<resolve> hah! java is the jerry springer of computer languages 1399% 1400<matju> chrchr: the web will allow us to metaparadigmatically outpace 1401innovation beyond the future 1402<matju> chrchr: that's why it's so revolutionary 1403% 1404--- shapr is now known as world 1405<world> hello 1406% 1407<glyph> so we need to target this website to three groups -- end users, corporate shills, and open source developers 1408<dash> and unfortunately JavaScript is not advanced enough to determine which is which. 1409% 1410<exarkun> I think there's a rather large difference between a stale twinkie and a kernel swap daemon 1411% 1412<stranger> ok i think i need a polymorphic language with continuations and closures to write this properly 1413<stranger> should I give up and implement in C? 1414% 1415<yosomono> When I was done with my first test gtk app using twisted, my first thought was "is that it?" 1416% 1417<thirmite> srbaker: www.twistedmatrix.com - a framework for building 1418asynchronous network based apps 1419<dreid> in other words, doing cool stuff with little work and even less 1420documentation 1421[*ahem*, hopefully not for long --ed] 1422% 1423<glyph> if you've ever dealt with MS, it's like dealing with ... well, germany. 1424<glyph> it's big and not everybody agrees on everything 1425% 1426* skreech runs mothra over in his shrike. 1427* dreid rushes to an inventory station and grabs a sniper rifle 1428<resolve> hey skreech, i just went and made myself some lunch, and you're still doing that. :) i think it's time to stop 1429% 1430* stampy tosses a fruitcake mortar skreech's way 1431<skreech> NOT FRUITCAKE 1432* stampy sprays skreech with napalm eggnog 1433* skreech loses control of his shrike. 1434<skreech> MY EYES 1435* skreech ejects 1436<glyph> dash: it's a performance art version of t2, I think 1437% 1438* dreid hands skreech a chaingun and dash a spinfuser 1439* skreech jumps and jets. 1440* Novas007 picks up a mortar 1441* dash tries to work out which end to hold 1442<skreech> dash: raaaatatatatatatatatata 1443* moshez gets a radioactive spider to bite him 1444<moshez> yay! I have spider-powers 1445* Novas007 flies up to the nearest high place and begins raining mortars down 1446<dreid> hah 1447* skreech blows up. 1448* moshez uses his spider powers to help human kind. 1449<skreech> Shazbot! 1450<dreid> "damn lag!" 1451% 1452--- dash has changed the topic to: from enemy_base import flag 1453% 1454* skreech throws a satchel charge in the middle of the channel. 1455* dreid hides behind a generator 1456<skreech> lets argue. 1457% 1458<skreech> THE SENSOR NETWORK IS DOWN 1459* skreech pilots his shrike into the side of #python 1460% 1461* dreid fires his spinfuser at skreech 1462<skreech> BAM!! Glyph's body flys across the map after being hit by skreech's shrike going 355kph! 1463* skreech avoids various heat seaking missiles launched by mothra. 1464<skreech> dreid's disc hits skreech's shrike and sits it veering into a hill. 1465<skreech> Nooooo! 1466* skreech 's shrike flips upside down. 1467<skreech> EJECT EJECT 1468* skreech 's shrike explodes in a fiery ballness of flame. 1469* dreid starts saturation bombing of the area where skreech's shrike crashed 1470<skreech> AAAAA 1471* skreech dies. 1472<dreid> skreech: :) 1473<dreid> gg 1474% 1475<Acapnotic> Ooh, I just figured out what my first twisted.reality creation will be. 1476<dash> Acapnotic: oh? 1477<Acapnotic> "Being Glyph Lefkowitz" 1478% 1479* Intention enjoys very much being able to keep programs, editors, photo editors, and games runing for a week or more at a time without fucking up or crashing or making everything else slow. God bless younicks. 1480<Intention> I never had even concieved of forgetting that programs were running until unix. Now it is like.. erm.. 1481% 1482<spiv> Apparently my company used to be a Linux company, many years ago. 1483<spiv> The website consisted of Perl CGI scripts serving stock data. 1484<spiv> We moved to Windows because someone couldn't figure out how to give our customers case-insenstive website logins. 1485% 1486<radix> glyph: so, tell us about the trip! 1487<radix> did you have fun? 1488<glyph> radix: It was awesome. Sin is the best thing ever! 1489% 1490<radix> xihr: while moshez is indeed completely insane, he's not much of an ass-talker 1491% 1492<fooz> oh, mozart is "write once run anywhere" like java 1493<fooz> that means it probably won't work on any platform I care about 1494% 1495<liiwi> moshez: gotta squish radix to do 0.15.5 soon 1496(oh, my god, it's spreading - Ed.) 1497% 1498<Aardappel> this "I hate c++" is so old 1499<dash> it's as old as C++, yes 1500% 1501<Blue> glyph: USE TWISTED 1502% 1503--> moshez (~moshez@p9.j3.actcom.co.il) has joined #python 1504<itamar> look, it's moses! 1505--- ameoba is now known as redC 1506* redC parts 1507% 1508<itamar> Lesson of the day: you can't test the win32 event loop if you're not running the win32 event loop 1509% 1510<Yosomono@efnet> radix: It looks pretty disturbing when you see a bunch of people beating the shit out of a leprechaun who has arrows sticking out of his head 1511% 1512<glyph> I am tasting the pepperoni-pizza-combo flavored taste of independence. 1513<matsaleh> don't let it go to your head 1514<glyph> well, I still have a very strong sense of "I could crash into any of these objects at any time" 1515<glyph> I figure as long as I hang on to that really tightly, I'll be OK 1516<matsaleh> probably a good plan 1517<matsaleh> one word of advice tho 1518<matsaleh> don't drive for at least 1 hr after playing any FPS 1519<matsaleh> everything looks like a power up 1520% 1521<exarkun> twistedmatrix.com looks a lot different in netscape than it does in links 1522<exarkun> I suddenly have a much higher opinion of twisted 1523<exarkun> before I thought it was all garbage. now it is all garbage with a great web page 1524% 1525<radix> ViperCA: you can make good websites without doing stupid shit, you know. :-) 1526% 1527<Pahan> foot.get_owner's_gun_through_obscure_meta_tricks.shoot(self) 1528% 1529<TheJester> .seen god 1530<xena> God seen changing nickname to God_|Away|PersecutingAtheists ~ 52 day(s) 4 hr(s) 32 min(s) 58 sec(s) ago 1531% 1532<itamar> we're ripe for a syndicalist-anarchist revolution ;) 1533<radix> yay! 1534<radix> do you guys have a lot of those? 1535% 1536<radix> the sysadmin of the future is going to know twisted-shelling like the back of his hand 1537% 1538<Donatien_Alphonse> :) no promises - the truth may be a star, but we have a 1539proper motion relative to it. Oneof my favorite quoites - a wise man I knew 1540once said "Honor is truth in motion." 1541<glyph> Donatien_Alphonse: A wise man I once new said "I invented the hippo!" 1542It's not always best to live by the words of wise men. 1543<stranger> Donatien_Alphonse: i'm beginning to think wise men should keep 1544their traps shut :) 1545% 1546<Intention> Java and Squeak are sort of similar. They are both superdynamico and have their own widgety things and run in a VM. [Squeak] has way more colors though. 1547% 1548<skreech> no matter what, when I come back to my #twisted window theres always 'squish' somewhere 1549% 1550<red_one> hm 1551<red_one> is there a python that's statically typed? 1552<exarkun> red_one: the south american red python is of static type 1553% 1554* StevenK starts to plot a drive to Belgium, but gets stuck. 1555<StevenK> Damn ocean. 1556* moshez starts to plot a drive to Belgium, but gets stuck. 1557<moshez> Damn arabs. 1558% 1559<Intention> radix: Once upon a time, I truly GOT C++. This profound body of 1560knowledge was so complex, it formed a separate personality in my head just to 1561DEAL with the complexity without killing me. So every once in a while, when truly 1562troubled, I flip to that personality. When I come back, I have no idea what 1563happened. It's NIRVANA. 1564% 1565<moshez> dash: you should go back for completions of logic... 1566* dash points at his shirt 1567<dash> "AUBURN GRADUATE (PAID)" 1568<dash> i've done all the learning i'm ever going to do 1569% 1570<moshez> Nafai: I once met a girl on a bus. She told me her name was Li. I proved to her Aleph null is less then 2 to the Aleph null. She gave me her phone #. 1571<itamar> what does her name have to do with it? 1572<moshez> itamar: Lie groups. 1573% 1574<d1ver> python programmers?! it's not even a computer language - it doesn't even support proper tail recursion! 1575% 1576<skreech> radix: apparantly, in stories, chinese ISPs have responded to being blocked by the rest of the world with "take block off" 1577<skreech> take off every block for great justice! 1578<skreech> someone set up us the packet filter 1579<skreech> <zig> 1580% 1581<dash> BardCat: so. what's communism? 1582<BardCat> dash: It's when a boy and a girl love each other, and then there is a cabbage and a baby! 1583<dash> BardCat: wait 1584<dash> BardCat: i thought that was syndicalism 1585% 1586<gt3> perlsucks?yes:wtf_yes_it_does; 1587% 1588<hmmm-@efnet> sitting here seeing stuff like <ry> <exarkun@opn> really makes me feel like a minion talking to his gods :P 1589% 1590<dash> blag 1591<dash> let's finish all this 'twisted' crap so we can write some fun stuff 1592% 1593<skreech> WTF. The sf.net skill profile does not have a skill for "molecular biology" 1594% 1595<dash> moshez: you aren't making sense now 1596<moshez> dash: *now*? I'm not making sense *now*? 1597% 1598<stranger> Hey! I've got an idea: <byte><bit value=1/><bit value=0/><bit value=0/>....</byte> 1599% 1600<etcha@efnet> btw whats ry>? is it a kind of irc gateway? 1601<e@ircnet> it's a bit like a mind flayer, except it also relays messages. 1602% 1603<Pahan> Damn, I threw a horrible insult, and got no wise-ass retorts. 1604<sayke> Pahan: i was just going to say "ask me about my apathy" 1605<dash> sayke: he doesn't care about your apathy. 1606% 1607<shapr> man I had a radix quality dream 1608<shapr> it was about this guy who found a dinosaur preserved in ice, and removed its stomach, and surgically altered the stomach to be able to survive in lake awter by itself 1609% 1610<gt3> i had a dream guido really did get hit by a bus 1611<jafo> :-( 1612<jafo> He's a nice guy. 1613<gt3> then somehow twisted came standard with it after dash took over 1614<gt3> he seems nice 1615<gt3> but nice doesn't stop a bus 1616% 1617<skreech> How do I keep people from reading my Perl code? Oh wait. Ha ha! 1618% 1619<Acapnotic> I care not for your somnable teeth. I wish only to master the multipart/form-data 1620% 1621<Tenshihan> why do drugs make us commit so many crimes?! 1622% 1623<gt3> programming should be an adventure, those damn college courses make it so its like yer joining the navy seals so you can work at sea world as a whale feeder 1624% 1625<Jii> "internet with python" spells twisted 1626% 1627<Qelf> Did you doods find it hard when you 1st started? 1628<dash> Qelf: well sure 1629<dash> Qelf: in fact i would characterise my programming education as being in a state of near-permanent confusion 1630% 1631<ElectricElf> infinity: M-x font-lock-mode 1632<ElectricElf> infinity: You can set it do be on by default, but that requires 1633 editing a file somewhere and I can't remember which nor what to 1634 add ;) 1635% 1636<shapr> so, where do I buy stock in glyph? ;) 1637% 1638* hmh looks at unmime.c in fetchmail and cries in agony 1639<moshez> hmh: eh? what would a fucking MAIL DOWNLOADER be doing with mime? 1640<hmh> moshez: being too fucking smart for its own good. 1641<hmh> moshez: in a very dumb way, too. 1642% 1643<radix> I can switch screens like none other! 1644<radix> look! I just switched! 1645<radix> and again! 1646<radix> wee! 1647<itamar> wow 1648<itamar> I no longer feel bored 1649<itamar> compared to you, my life *scintillates* 1650% 1651<glyph> yo ho ho and a bottle of internet 1652% 1653<kosh#zope> sorry no games are worth what xp costs in terms of the freedoms removed 1654% 1655<Nafai> Dang. sendmail ain't working all the sudden 1656<exarkun> "all of a sudden"? 1657<exarkun> Nafai: where have you been for the last decade? 1658% 1659<dash> the primary function of the human brain is to make witty remarks on irc 1660% 1661<radix> i've gotta move to one of those socialist countries and become a school-bum like princepsz 1662<HappyFool> please. 'professional student', not 'school-bum' 1663% 1664<radix> Like, imagine sitting around with your Marine buddies in your transport spaceship, going to Mars, getting rowdied up for the battle with the space aliens 1665<radix> and then you get there and a thousand marines pour out of the ships and meet a horde of 10,000 imps 1666<dash> radix: AND YOUR FRAMERATE GOES IN THE TOILET 1667% 1668<exarkun> crack attack is life 1669% 1670<flippo> I was reading a book about C++ templates today, then I glanced at a preview of the Python cookbook, and I thought my ears would explode from the change in pressure. 1671% 1672<glyph> skreech: you think "Acquireable" is hard to spell? ;-) 1673[ed: dict acquireable] 1674% 1675<faassen> moshez: consistency's hobgoblin has a little mind! 1676* dash dubs moshez "consistency's hobgoblin" 1677% 1678<Overfiend> bwa ha ha ha ha 1679<Overfiend> 03:28AM|<moshez> what I like about Manoj is his desire for 1680 simple and small solutions. like EMACS. or dvt. 1681<Overfiend> 03:29AM|<Manoj> well, dvt was _supposed_ to be simple 1682<Overfiend> 03:29AM|<Manoj> it only took 2 weeks to write 1683<Overfiend> that's just a classic exchange 1684<Overfiend> "Well, it's really quite simple if you conceive of it as a 1685 partially bounded n-dimensional manifold where n is the factorial 1686 of the number of ballot options" 1687% 1688<TQuid> Twisted blows my mind so severely I want desperately to do 1689something with it, yet I don't know what. 1690<TQuid> You read about it and it's like "twisted will shortly assassinate 1691Bill Gates, reformulate intellectual property law to make both BSD and GNU 1692fanatics happy, and also make you a nice grilled-cheese sandwich." 1693% 1694<hmh> moshez: I know ESR thinks he is a god of sex, and I know his signal 1695 handling code says otherwise... 1696% 1697<II-V-I> subliminal message: python is good 1698<Yosomono@efnet> subliminal retort: damn good 1699<sun> subliminal antagonism: have you tried Ruby? 1700% 1701<spiv> Imar: Saying "php is good because it is better than C" is like saying "maiming is good because it is better than severe maiming with shrapnel and burning oil". 1702% 1703<radix> why do i hang out with you geeks ;) 1704<dash> radix: the money, the power, the chicks 1705<radix> YES 1706<radix> :) 1707<dash> the self-delusion 1708% 1709<iLLf8d> hey all how can I get more info from python exceptions? 1710<gt3> play good cop/bad cop 1711% 1712<stranger> too much lag. going to pub. 1713*** stranger is now known as stranger[pub] 1714% 1715<radix> how was the [censor]? 1716<radix> oh. 1717* radix pats his trusty Secure-o-matic. 1718<glyph> radix: Terrific! [censored] was there, and so was [censored]. We built a [CENSORED] and used it to target 1719<glyph> [INFORMATION QUOTA EXCEEDED] 1720<radix> whoah there, buddy. 1721<glyph> Erase is delete. 1722<glyph> Kill is control-U (^U). 1723<glyph> Interrupt is control-C (^C). 1724<glyph> Ahem 1725<glyph> right. So, it went well. 1726% 1727<schirkaan> and i thought distro wars where over a long time ago ;) 1728<radix> schirkaan: are you new to IRC? :) 1729% 1730<wiggy> for some reason the drugs aren't working today 1731*** wiggy is ~wichert@cabal.xs4all.nl (Wichert Akkerman) 1732% 1733You may think I'm uncooperative, but perhaps I'm just stupid. 1734Bye, 1735 Mike 1736-- 1737|=| Michael Piefel 1738% 1739<skreech> If MS had bought Nintendo then Pikachu could be an MS Office Assistent. 1740<shapr> paperclippachu, irritation attack! 1741<shapr> paperclippachu, window close immunity! 1742% 1743<aj> Tv: it's been around for ages, but never got put in the mainline cgi's 1744 (doogie saw some bright and shiny and got distracted...) 1745% 1746<SteveA> I want a new builtin type for Python 2.3: zenbool 1747<SteveA> It is like the new bool type, but has three possible values: True, False and Mu 1748% 1749<aj> willy: so the question is, do i want to try my luck with another willy 1750 upload? do i feel lucky? well, do i, punk? 1751% 1752<skreech> kill guard 1753<skreech> drink potion 1754<skreech> [lag] 1755<skreech> ... 1756<skreech> YOU MISSED GUARD HITS YOU MISSED GUARD HITS YOU MISSED GUARD HITS 1757<skreech> You can't do that when you're dead. 1758% 1759<rc> I'm making a game called Tycoon Tycoon. It simulates competing software companies making 'Tycoon' games. 1760% 1761<faassen> "Hey I could speak in Slashdot messages only" An interesting 1762experiment. 1763% 1764<glyph> So... 1765<glyph> XML. 1766*** Quits: dash:#twisted [washort@d136.narrowgate.net] (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 1767<glyph> Wow... just _saying_ it makes him disappear 1768% 1769<Overfiend> Eric Raymond got frustrated because his code wasn't getting 1770 merged, and it wasn't helping him out with the chicks who only 1771 give blow jobs to people whose code actually makes it into the 1772 kernel. 1773% 1774<dash> a famous evil genius is a dead evil genius 1775<dash> unless you've got a robot army or something 1776<dash> and mine's on back order 1777% 1778<itamar> you know what causes most evilness? the WEB 1779% 1780<spiv> My life is a sequence of blissful sleeps interspersed by bits between sleeping (most people call those bits "days"). 1781<spiv> I live for sleeping. 1782<spiv> It's like my natural, base state of being. The Aristotlean ideal of me is me sleeping. 1783% 1784<itamar> [in XMLRPC] the header saying you *used* compression is as long as the banana packet 1785% 1786[ 23:07:38 ] <glyph> DeepTape: Are you familiar with the Time Cube? 1787[ 23:08:06 ] <DeepTape> glyph: is that a comic? 1788[ 23:08:13 ] <dash> DeepTape: not.... exactly 1789% 1790<cyli> Your minions are like the little elves, or trolls, who make shoes. 1791 Except, not really shoes: internet. 1792% 1793<radix> there are stick men!!! 1794<dash> yes 1795<dash> uml has stick men 1796<radix> I LOVE UML!!!!!! 1797% 1798<dash> get thee down, be thou funky 1799% 1800<thirmite> the novelty has worn off and i once again need heroin. 1801% 1802<thirmite> some would argue radix on crack is a different person!! 1803<exarkun> thirmite: some would argue that radix _not_ on crack is a different person 1804<demoncrat> some might argue radix on crack is two different people 1805% 1806<glyph> and the rexec'd code would run in a thread, and could use a Bastion to frob a PB reference synchronously 1807<radix> here comes the crack, fellas 1808% 1809<adiabatic> Every day you stay awake too long God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens. 1810% 1811<o2s@ircnet> its nott the size that matters but the code 1812% 1813<Nafai> After I do some preliminary testing, I will soon be using Twisted towards commericial purposes 1814<Aco> like what? 1815* exarkun crosses his fingers and hopes for microlaser brain surgery hardware control. 1816<exarkun> Twisted: The Framework That's Cutting Up Your Brain 1817% 1818<sayke> "your mission, sayke, should you choose to accept it, is as follows: define r(n, b[n], x, u); where r() is reality's iteration definition rule function, n is 1819the number of dimensions, b[n] is the boundry size (in each dimension) of the automata, x is the number of cell states, and u is the state of the universe, last 1820iteration." 1821<radix> sayke: use Twisted! 1822% 1823* moshez kills dash and eats him 1824<krz> You feel jumpy. 1825% 1826<ameoba> now that everything is an object, I'm afraid you'll have to return those integers until we can verify your credit. 1827% 1828<faassen> I created it. but I'm not *responsible* :) 1829<faassen> it started lurching around by itself.. 1830% 1831<skreech> I dont even take a lot of whats on IRC to _brain_ much less to heart. 1832% 1833<dash> javadoc is a cold and demanding master 1834% 1835* itamar looks out the window at the view and cheers up 1836<itamar> nothing like a peanut factory to remind you how good life is 1837[...] 1838<itamar> there's a peanut factory next to the office, and that's what I see 1839<itamar> great big peanut containers, towering above me 1840% 1841<glyph> itamar: we should set up a really nasty looking demo with emacs and java and pb all talking to each other 1842* glyph ponders code-generation-based support for PB in C++ 1843<glyph> OK, I am guessing that dull pain behind my eyes means I should stop thinking 1844% 1845[re: emacs/PB, and the implementation thereof] 1846<glyph> LEXICAL-LET is cool, I don't care how it works. I don't _want_ to know how it 1847works. And now I have an appreciation for why I should never, ever change PB 1848again :) 1849% 1850<aj> mstone: the raving lunatic camp rarely manages to 1851 implement stuff +effectively, so they follow the people who can... </aj's 1852 theory of life, the +universe and everything> 1853% 1854<skreech> web 1855<itamar> web? 1856<glyph> skreech: INTAR-web. 1857<skreech> .org 1858% 1859<shapr> itamar: I've heard jdk1.4 is using a modified version of the mach kernel... 1860<itamar> hahahahah 1861<itamar> you're kidding, I hope 1862<shapr> itamar: see, YOU'RE NOT SURE 1863% 1864<ameoba> print "\n".join(["".join([(lambda n, f=lambda c : "\033[%dm#"%c: f(n=='0' and 30 or n=='1' and 33 or n=='2' and 35 or n=='3' and 31 or n=='4' and 34 or n=='5' and 32 or n=='6' and 37))(char) for char in line]) for line in ["%06d"%x for x in [1002,31502,314233,314251,131152,314214,411531,234562,152212]]]) 1865<ameoba> ex : it's a diagram of a crack-attack board +) 1866<ameoba> 'cuz I can't dcc shit to shapr while he's behind that firewall +) 1867% 1868<__del__> is there a special method a class can implement if it does its own garbage collection? 1869--- __del__ is now known as gc 1870* gc collects himslef 1871<-- gc has kicked gc from #zope (gc) 1872% 1873"Much like in the world of Frisbee, new game developers and game 1874development companies should never make a statement with more predictive 1875power than "Watch this!" " 1876- Glyph 1877% 1878Brian Crowder: It's both relevant and terrifying at the same time. 1879Glyph: That's the best kind of relevant. 1880Matt Walker: Yes, but it's the worst kind of terrifying. 1881% 1882<glyph> exarkun: The issue with globals is that they make resource management nearly impossible. 1883<exarkun> glyph: why kind of resources? 1884<glyph> exarkun: memory, disk, process time. 1885<exarkun> glyph: I don't see how... 1886<glyph> exarkun: Well, let's start with a hypothetical world with twenty billion obje[Out of memory error: server stopped] 1887% 1888* moshez decides to call himself GNU/Moshez 1889% 1890<skreech> (#%&@$@ 1891<shapr> perl? or lisp? 1892% 1893<noa> "let sleeping dongs lie" 1894% 1895<glyph> moshez: see? xml makes people happy. 1896% 1897<resolve> we live in a world where some people get their jollies having sex 1898 with dead people - i don't think the notion of windows supporters 1899 is entirely inconceivable 1900% 1901<ameoba> isn't a latvia part of the female genitalia? 1902% 1903<glyph> blargchoo 1904% 1905<Yosomono@efnet> premature optimization is like that other "premature" thing, messy and embarrassing 1906% 1907<SteveA> I just had a very odd phone call 1908<SteveA> from a researcher with the french TV station "TF1" 1909<SteveA> asking about inflatable football referees 1910% 1911<exarkun> english am dumb 1912% 1913<sjj> i believe my monitor just blanked out 1914<sjj> i hope i'm in the IRC window ;) 1915<skreech> sjj: no use telling you 'yes' 1916% 1917<dash> careful with that syntax, eugene 1918% 1919<VladDrac> does it [Twisted - ed] make my penis grow? 1920<shapr> if so, you better be careful how many people run Twisted all at once. 1921<shapr> you could die of blood loss. 1922% 1923<shapr> in reality, it just means I can throw down some Zope stuff and then play more crack attack rather than wrestling with J2EE for months. 1924<shapr> ya know, no one on #java plays crack-attack 1925<shapr> I think there's a not so hidden truth there. 1926% 1927<EWSJames> we can be knights in shining armor if we want, but peasants who make up 99.9% percent of the people just see us as asses who wear shiny shit and talk funny 1928% 1929* TuxedoKamen wonders why everyone always assumes he's on linux 1930<Erwin> benefit of the doubt :) 1931% 1932<allexpro> dash: put me in a tent and give it to moshez! 1933% 1934<glyph> dash: we need to come up with a "basic rules of discourse" webpage 1935<exarkun> glyph: why 1936<glyph> exarkun: because if one more person makes a completely unfounded assertion in front of me I AM GOING TO EXPLODE THIS BACKPACK-SIZED NUCLEAR DEVICE 1937<dash> glyph: I invented the hippo!@ 1938% 1939<dash> we've all got stupid ideas in our past 1940<dash> thanks to the power of the internet, the shame associated with them need never dim! 1941% 1942<sjj> itamar: if you use the word 'embedded' a lot, you sound smart. 1943% 1944<liiwi> ah, coldness, the lovely coldness. And the ever-protecting darkness. 1945% 1946From the /topic on #web: 1947The First Rule of Web Development is, "We Don't Talk About Netscape 4.x" 1948% 1949<spiv> I'm not entirely happy with it, but it works. Well, actually it doesn't. But until 5 minutes ago I thought it did :) 1950 [regarding the god-cursed FTP support in Twisted -ed] 1951% 1952<dash> your RDF is massive and unstoppable. [to glyph -ed] 1953% 1954<skreech> ooooh shit 1955<skreech> I have moderator points! 1956<skreech> RAAAAAMPAAAAAAAGE!!$*^ 1957% 1958<tenth> "And then you run this Z80 assembly on the resulting bytecode in the emulator of your choice to create your makefile." 1959<tenth> "The inital register settings of the real or simulated Z80 are left as an exercise for the reader." 1960 [the nebula build process is just not fun. -ed] 1961% 1962<dash> i find it interesting that your roadmap showed twisted improving most while you're in jail. 1963[in reference to http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2001-April/000037.html -ed] 1964% 1965<allexpro> discovering twisted is probably the best thing that has happened in my life 1966% 1967<sjj> dash: i'm fine with you dealing drugs, just keep them away from radix 1968<dash> sjj: look, if i dont keep radix stocked, we get no releases. 1969% 1970<radix> /msg exarkun [lilo] HI ALL GIMME MONEYS AND LOOK AT MY WEBBARSITE 1971% 1972* radix harnesses the power of fudgepops for good, rather than evil 1973% 1974<dreid> radix: any system that relies so heavily on a human concept like trust is inherently flawed ... 1975<dreid> radix: i just use gpg to encrypt my porn 1976% 1977<Bergenlund> how do I add twisted to autoexec.bat? 1978% 1979* skreech squints really hard and tries to change his neuron patterns. 1980% 1981<radix> MY TAPEWORM TELLS ME WHAT TO DO 1982<radix> s/MY TAPEWORM/MOSHEZ/ 1983% 1984<dash> .rhosts auth is effectively "root one get one free" 1985% 1986<dash> the os module is why python doesn't suck 1987<glyph> dash: concrete is what makes skyscrapers not suck 1988<glyph> dash: doesn't mean I want to go swimming in it 1989% 1990<dash> is there some connection between German and disgusting modifications to C? 1991 [c.f. The Nebula Device, CLISP -ed] 1992% 1993<dreid> earth# apt-get install good-will-towards-man 1994<dreid> Reading Package Lists... Done 1995<dreid> Building Dependency Tree... Done 1996<dreid> Sorry but the following packages have unmet dependencies: 1997<dreid> good-will-towards-man: Depends: peace-on-earth but it is not going to be installed 1998<_moshez> dreid: file a bug against good-will-towards-men 1999<_moshez> dreid: unless it is in contrib? 2000<Nafai> non-free, perhaps 2001% 2002<dreid> <xpp> 2003<dreid> <xout>Hello World!</xout> 2004<dreid> </xpp> 2005<bruce> dreid: just fucking learn Common Lisp. :) 2006% 2007<exarkun> let the unwashed masses write their C 2008<exarkun> you will reap the benefits of their pain and toil 2009% 2010<glyph> jemfinch: Are you really a captain of a spaceship from the mirror earth, on the other side of the sun? 2011<jemfinch> I don't quite catch your meaning :) 2012<glyph> jemfinch: Aah. Wink wink, know what you mean, say no more, say no more. 2013% 2014<dash> "mwahahahahahahahahahaha" 2015<Nafai> you are the christina aguilera of evil 2016% 2017<glyph> > flirt with cyli 2018<glyph> You flirt with cyli. [moshez is here, flirting with cyli] 2019<glyph> > wink at cyli 2020<glyph> You wink flirtatiously at cyli. 2021<glyph> Glyph enters the room. 2022<glyph> # glare moshez 2023<glyph> Glyph glares at you! 2024<glyph> # kill moshez with sword of infinite slaying 2025<glyph> Glyph hits! Glyph hits! glyph hits! -more- 2026% 2027<bruce> i wish i was only doing an imitation of a dumb user rather than really being one. :) 2028% 2029<sjj> you can't be a satinist without god either 2030<spiv> You can be a satanist without pants though. The world is an amazing place. 2031% 2032* glyph finally places the order to get his carpets cleaned 2033<shapr> is carpet cleaning thread safe? 2034% 2035<tenth> "As a developer, I'm often discouraged by the amount of time and effort it takes to gouge out my own eyes in pain and frustration. Thanks to Gouge#.net, this distasteful task can be peformed quickly and easily by a trained professional*. Thank you, .net. Jesus, my eyes. 2036 (* Professionally designed GougeWizard(TM) with your choice of animated agent character) 2037% 2038<resolve> i miss the days of programming computers in machine code. all this new-fangled source code is a waste of time. 2039<itamar> machine code? hah 2040<itamar> in my day we ran programs in our *head* 2041<moshez> itamar: you had a *head*? pah 2042% 2043<glyph> who could forget binky? 2044<radix> glyph: well, anyone who naturally blocks out haunting things so they don't have nightmares 2045<glyph> radix: Kenaan disapproves. 2046% 2047<hornby> Slavery doesn't seem so bad. 2048% 2049<getchomsky> "so, mister nooning, did you know you are associating with a man named glyph, a man authorities consider to be the most dangerous jewish man alive?" 2050<getchomsky> "his mastery of open source programing makes him a threat to every man and woman alive on this planet. he must be stopped. Forget everything you think you know about him, and about this "twisted" of his" 2051% 2052<exarkun> twisted.web has used 1 CPU second of time in the week I've had it running. 2053% 2054<psy> How do I stop a factory? 2055<Aco> psy: syndicate strike 2056% 2057<exarkun> exceptions in C++ are a _huge_ mistake. 2058<radix> s/exceptions in/ 2059% 2060<exarkun> glyph: do _you_ know about super()? 2061<exarkun> glyph: As far as I can tell, it's a plot, one that would be likely perpetrated by an organisation not unlike the PSU (if the PSU existed, of course), to kidnap our firstborn and empty our jars of cookies. 2062<Nafai> My cookies!? 2063% 2064<glyph> You know, I don't think I've reached a point in my life where I said "I don't have enough emotional trauma", irc-related or otherwise. 2065<dash> glyph: cool. let's go troll #c++. 2066% 2067<sjj> i've heard there is a /quit command. 2068<ameoba> sjj : "/quit" : absurd liberal myth 2069<sjj> figured. 2070% 2071<_moshez> itamar: so, the security people ask them what they do, and they say they are mathematicians 2072<_moshez> itamar: and to prove it, they show papers with their name on it. 2073<_moshez> itmaar: and then the security guys ask them to explain what the papers are about! 2074<_moshez> itamar: apparently, one hasn't lived until he heard a mathematician explain to a security guy what equivariant cobordisms between symplectic manifolds are 2075% 2076<ameoba> c++ is 700 times faster than Python 2077<princepsd> ameoba: based on? ;)) 2078<ameoba> princeps: something somebody said on usenet +) 2079% 2080<itamar> take money from elderly and weak with knife 2081[itamar writes test cases for the Twisted Reality parser] 2082% 2083<matiu> (I have to write help files) :( 2084<ameoba> matiu : you could do it with twisted. 2085<matiu> ameoba: So you're saying twisted has a "help file writer" somewhere deep down? 2086<dash> matiu: yes and his name is bruce 2087% 2088<glyph> dash: uh... what is the correct answer to the question "The short common lisp site name"? 2089<dash> glyph: "it buuuuuuurns" 2090<skreech> my eyes, the googles do nothing! 2091% 2092<skreech> Why do I feel the sudden urge to buy a nice quality florescent desk lamp? 2093% 2094<skreech> the woot, the woot, the woot is on fire. 2095% 2096<skreech> itamar: heres your nickel back. 2097% 2098<datazone> okay, tell me if i am crazy 2099<Yosomono> you are 2100<datazone> damn 2101% 2102<bruce> and i like doing what i enjoy in my spare time. :) 2103<bruce> which, although you all might think so, isn't harassing you all to do more work. 2104<bruce> although you all do need to do more work. 2105% 2106<snibril> JRuby? hmmm, only java ppl have to reimplement ever other lang to replace theirs ;) 2107<radix> scheme people, too 2108<cleverdra> Scheme people don't do that! 2109<radix> how many object systems have YOU written today? 2110<cleverdra> radix - today? 12, but one of them wasn't really. 2111% 2112<radix> excuse me for visiting my DEAR OLD BABUSHKA on her EIGHTY-SIXTH BIRTHDAY when I should be WORKING ON TWISTED 2113% 2114<radix> every time you make a terrible joke, a baby rabbit dies 2115% 2116<itamar> "We put the 's' in 'drwxr-sr-x'!" 2117% 2118<bruce> i've apparently gotten someone at work to clean up their act. 2119<glyph> bruce: clean up their act how? 2120<glyph> bruce: were they like a pedophile heroin addict or were they just checking in buggy code? 2121<dash> glyph: like there's a difference 2122% 2123<dash> It's moshez. Remember the briefing. 2124% 2125<dash> glyph: so, i am trying to jump off the side of the NSF headquarters without losing my legs 2126<fzZzy> reminds me of college 2127% 2128<itamar> IN THE INTERNET AGE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CHAT WITH YOUR TOASTER 2129% 2130<itamar> I liked the "2 years C# and .NET experience" job 2131<gt3> i guess they're hiring dogs 2132% 2133<fzZzy> how do you quit a twisted telnet session? 2134<allexpro> ctrl + ]? 2135<fzZzy> there's no cleaner way? 2136<exarkun> calling close() on your connection's socket is pretty clean. 2137<exarkun> I suppose you could call in a tactical nuclear strike on the remote host 2138<fzZzy> considering the remote host is my computer right here, that would take care of everything for me 2139% 2140<glyph> spiv: is bugzilla bad? 2141<spiv> glyph: It's... large. And perl. Join the dots. 2142% 2143<itamar> write a kqueue reactor 2144<itamar> all the FreeBSD people will then go nuts 2145<bruce> FeerBSD people are already nuts 2146% 2147<radix> don't let's all go break a million tests, eh? 2148% 2149<dash> adiabatic: citizen, you have committed an error 2150% 2151<bruce> i'm feeling motivated 2152<glyph> bruce: yaay! 2153<glyph> bruce: what flavour of motivation? 2154<bruce> beating you up 2155% 2156<moshez> it's the holy trinity, dash, radix & glyph 2157% 2158<bruce> what's #ypn ? 2159<glyph> bruce: the fifth circle of hell 2160<moshez> bruce: young programmers' network 2161<moshez> glyph: potato potahto 2162% 2163<bruce> allexpro is a view of the future of humanity as a group consciousness. 2164% 2165<exarkun> njjeeeee 2166<itamar> njjeeee? 2167<exarkun> ancient aramethaic warcry 2168<exarkun> infamous for its ability to strike confusion into the hearts of enemies of aramathia 2169% 2170<exarkun> radix: lisp freak 2171<exarkun> radix: go suck on a car 2172% 2173<ameoba> it's frightening to remember that twisted is an overgrown MUD 2174% 2175<fariseo> i am completely lost, all i do understand is an OS with a database backend and a scripting language, but i am missing the whole xml/.net/j2ee/twisted... 2176<glyph> I'm both honored and appalled that Twisted shows up in that list :) 2177% 2178<exarkun> Pop up a Tkinter dialog saying "There's some information waiting for you" and do a beep every time the ethernet IRQ goes high 2179% 2180<hornby> 1. Create laws that promote a fair, just society. 2181<exarkun> 2. ???? 2182<exarkun> 3. PROFIT 2183% 2184<moshez> skreech: I claimed the typical anti anarchist attack goes something like: 2185<moshez> "say someone cracks into your computer, downloads all your porn, burns it to a CD and throws it at you?" 2186<moshez> anarcho-communist: nothing. the community would reprimand him. 2187<moshez> anarcho-capitalist: my private security forces would shoot him before the CD left his fingers 2188<moshez> attacker: "SEE! under anarchism you'd have people throwing porn CDs at people, and people either ignoring them and shooting them!" 2189% 2190<rmt> Every python program needs to have direct access to a mouse over ssh! 2191% 2192<strib> Sorry, I'm just in the middle of a paradigm warp right now. 2193<dash> strib: welcome to twisted 2194% 2195<exarkun> entirely not your fault, I'd say. the current behavior is somewhat broken 2196<exarkun> luckily I documented it as being broken so it's not my fault either. 2197% 2198<kriptik> wow twisted is neat 2199<kriptik> *bleeds from the eyes* 2200% 2201<allexpro> i said 'hello' 2202<allexpro> and when i 'cat test.au > /dev/dsp'... it sounded like a tiger roar 2203% 2204* moshez sings the radix song 2205<moshez> "for he's a squishy good radix" 2206<moshez> "for he's a squishy good radix" 2207<moshez> "for he's a squishy good raaaaaaadix" 2208<moshez> "and nobody can deny" 2209% 2210<allexpro> and how do observer patterns work? 2211<dash> the PSU watches your data and notifies the authorities when it becomes suspicious. 2212% 2213<comajelly> hrm, I wanted to snipe this guy, but he got ran over. 2214<fzZzy> heh 2215<fzZzy> I hate it when that happens 2216% 2217<itamar> night all 2218<-- itamar has quit ("Client Exiting") 2219<radix> me too 2220<radix> heh, it's weird going to sleep at the same time as itamar 2221% 2222<glyph> radix: I think that the twisted vs. asyncore table should begin with this quote, though: "Our conviction is like an arrow already in flight. Your life will only last until it reaches you." 2223% 2224<Erwin> I recompiled XFree 4.2 with gcc 3.2-beta-from-cvs with -O42 and -march-pentium4-800Mhz and I am sure that the MOUSE CURSOR is moving 5 % FASTER! 2225% 2226<bruce> I CONTROL YOUR WEBSITE!@$$ 2227% 2228--> IAmNotAPickle (slt5v@12-255-1-203.client.attbi.com) has joined #twisted 2229<radix> PICKLE 2230<-- IAmNotAPickle (slt5v@12-255-1-203.client.attbi.com) has left #twisted 2231<radix> :( 2232<exarkun> you scared it 2233% 2234<exarkun> heh 2235<exarkun> I was at home depot the other day 2236<exarkun> and they had a big rack of free AOL CDs 2237<exarkun> So I took about 40 and stuck them under people's windshield wipers in the parking lot 2238% 2239> Linux is complicated, becasue you compile. 2240Corollary: Windows is simple because no compiler comes with the system... 2241[Seen on linux-il] 2242% 2243<sjj> dash: soon there'll be another level of college labelled "unlearn university crap" 2244% 2245<wzZy> arg. these infinite recursion tracebacks take forever to render in the browser 2246% 2247<exarkun> I'm just kidding. I'll spend on good computer books, but I failed to do any prepatory research in order to know whether any of the books there were worth anything. 2248<exarkun> And I'd just spent $80 at the camping store. 2249<adiabatic> wadja get? 2250<exarkun> some kerosene and a cooler and a coupla chairs 2251<dash> nothing like a good old fashioned book burning 2252% 2253<radix> you have the pokey gene 2254<zigg> ack, where'd I get it from :-P 2255<radix> it's random 2256<zigg> triple ultra-recessive 2257% 2258<radix> krz: we know that glyph owns all of our souls equally 2259% 2260<moshez> glyph: teehee. good always loses 2261% 2262<sjj> if you package twisted with python, it becomes py2ee 2263% 2264<sjj> when does something denote enterprise? :P 2265<deltab> when it's the most expensive version in its line 2266<inapt> when it's terribly inefficient, but scales ;-) 2267<deltab> alternatively: database 2268% 2269<glyph> The world made more sense when I thought software was a physical thing you sold in stores, and I wrote code in C++; making software was a lot more like mixing cement, then, not poetry or revolution. 2270% 2271<skreech> I'm sorry. I forgot that in #twisted, all suggestions are taken seriously. 2272% 2273<sjj> what do you do for your clients? :) 2274<sjj> "distributed enterprise networking technology solutions" ? 2275<bruce> we put DENTS in your budget. 2276% 2277<Jerub> All these things that would be next to impossible with php, that I can think to do in twisted.web 2278% 2279<timmy> so it's basically a lot of libs for doing stuff? 2280[timmy becomes enlightened to the Twisted Way -ed] 2281% 2282<Joey> I sense disturbance in the security buildd structure. 2283% 2284<wzZzy> AQUAMAN VS THE GERMANS IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER MADE 2285% 2286<eevench> is LISP good 2287<exarkun> The short answer is yes and no. 2288<exarkun> You don't want the long answer. 2289% 2290<radix> who has the power to wield the almighty +t? 2291<radix> Me! 2292<exarkun> radix: I don't think you can handle the +t 2293% 2294<willy> you can tune a fs but you can't call a string 2295% 2296<Jerub> What l33t skilzz do I have to pick up to get a python job? Zope? Twisted? 2297<dash> Jerub: the power to cloud the minds of men 2298<Jerub> dash: I'm afraid I only have a Wand of Clouding vs. Women 2299<glyph> Jerub: oh, that's easy 2300<glyph> use the wand on a woman 2301<glyph> women have the clouding-men's-minds intrinsic 2302<glyph> so you can either make her your pet and then wander around 2303near some businessmen for a while 2304<glyph> or eat her corpse and get the intrinsic yourself 2305<glyph> no wait, that's not how it works... 2306<dash> glyph: wrong game 2307 * dash twitches violently as he thinks of "nethack, enterprise edition" 2308% 2309<spiv> AaronSw: You should never, ever be creating a transport... Twisted is supposed to do that for you. 2310<AaronSw> I should never create the tcp.Client stuff or I shouldn't manually set them as the transport? 2311<spiv> AaronSw: Use reactor.clientTCP (or better yet, reactor.connectTCP in CVS). 2312<spiv> Don't create tcp.Client directly either. 2313<spiv> http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/TwistedDocs/Twisted-0.19.0/twisted/internet/interfaces_IReactorTCP.py.html 2314<spiv> AaronSw: But of course, that API is deprecated in 0.99 (but creating a tcp.Client directly is even more deprecated :P) 2315<AaronSw> Are you guys abstraction astronauts or something? ;-) 2316% 2317<DeepTape> Oh no, taxes! They are trying to steal your arctic circle income 2318% 2319<pkomarek> dash: the worst part about perl is that it is intuitive, right up until you need something to work correctly. 2320% 2321<dash> finally! an essential representation of the confusion. 2322 [ed: referring to a diagram of twisted.cred] 2323% 2324<Acapnotic> Good afternoon, Agent. 2325<glyph> Acapnotic: "agent"? You've been immersing yourself in the One True Game, I take it. 2326<Acapnotic> What's going on out there is no game. Those guys are using real bullets. 2327<Acapnotic> That last mission? I got sloppy at the end of it. Real sloppy. Barely had a leg to stand on when I got on that chopper. 2328% 2329<glyph> Hello .au 2330<Jerub> hello .us 2331<Jerub> or, alteratively, 2332<Jerub> hello None 2333% 2334<moshez> doogie: Clint wants you to lap-dance. 2335<doogie> I charge more than the normal $20 2336<Clint> with or without the hat? 2337<doogie> that'd be the only thing I'd wear 2338% 2339[About a tm.com redesign] 2340<evol> But what kinda design is the goal here 2341<itamar> not ugly? 2342<moshez> evol: a good one. 2343<dash> evol: "non sucky" 2344% 2345<sjj> glyph: ahh too bad, if you have a windows box it lets you use windows media player... 2346<dash> sjj: he's a terrorist PPC user not a patriotic x86 user 2347% 2348<JerubBaal> why can religious fanatics and nigerians not figure out capslock? 2349<glyph> JerubBaal: IF IS SPEAK LIKE A TELEGRAM YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME STOP IF I USE NORMAL ENGLISH YOU MAY FIND IT BLAND AND NOT READ IT ALL STOP 2350<JerubBaal> Sorry, I lost interest after you shouted 'telegram' 2351% 2352<dash> twisted doesn't currently have any trouble with 2.2, right? 2353<radix> nope 2354<dash> good good 2355* dash prepares to make trouble 2356% 2357<dash> looks like we have people who just totally fall off our radar because they're totally happy with twisted and dont _need_ to say anything =) 2358% 2359<spiv> glyph: You have the deepest insight into XML of anyone I know ;) 2360% 2361<mesozoic> I tried adding one in coil, and got more errors. I'm not sure if I'm going about it properly. Is there any other way to configure a vhost? 2362<ameoba> call the vhost-bustters 2363% 2364<Jerub> I got in trouble for drawing a smiley face on a gantt chart. 2365% 2366* moshez does the evil lowering squishation resistance level dance. 2367% 2368<glyph> CDATA is not an integration strategy. 2369% 2370<nessus> The PSU? Is that that thing that I used to send $50 a year to? 2371% 2372<radix> "Don't expect romantic attachments to be strictly logical or rational!" [from a fortune cookie -ed] 2373<deltab> do expect them to be in DOC format 2374<deltab> "May all your romantic attachments be in an unreadable file format" 2375% 2376<sjj> skreech: you go to all classes? 2377<skreech> sjj: yes. 2378<sjj> skreech: why? :) 2379<sjj> skreech: uni was made to be skipped 2380<sjj> man, americans must be dedicated students. 2381% 2382* moshez doubts they realize Linux has *WAY* more brand-awareness than SCO, and possibly equal to "UNIX" 2383<dash> where SCO is recognised 2384<dash> it is recognised as suffering 2385% 2386--- ivan is now known as grub 2387<grub> please donate to this IRC server I need lots of money i don't know how i can stay online. 2388--- grub is now known as ivan 2389% 2390<glyph> I've started to think that having a lot of stable, robust stuff and a 2391 lot of half-finished proof-of-concept stuff in one project is a good 2392 business model 2393<glyph> like "You know we can do good work, but we got bored with that bit; if 2394 you want us to finish it, pay" 2395<dash> glyph: good, because that's what we have 2396% 2397<StevenK> steven@broken:~$ ssh squished 2398<StevenK> steven@squished's password: 2399<StevenK> Linux squished 2.4.18-686 #1 Sun Apr 14 11:32:47 EST 2002 i686 2400% 2401<bruce> how are the jails in israel? 2402<itamar> well, the one I was in was pretty nice 2403% 2404<dash> glyph: how many PSU agents did you have to kill to get that working? 2405<glyph> dash: 3, and they were all waiting just inside the door. Amateurs. 2406% 2407<glyph> and it's considered a professional courtesy, when you are *invited* 2408 into a bank, not to steal all their moneys and shoot the managers full 2409 of assault rifle bullets 2410% 2411<moshez> itamar: you're AT WORK? 2412<itamar> moshez: I am not an employee 2413% 2414<tenth> Doing stuff in MySQL is like getting dates at [name elided to 2415 protect the guilty -ed] College... "How ugly do you want it?" 2416% 2417<tenth> I think we need a god verb "0wnz0r" on the 2418 reality-pencil-type-thing. I'm not sure exactly what it would do, but I 2419 think it may be necessary. 2420% 2421<dash> Saying that complexity isn't real because it "was invented somewhere else" is the most useless kind of wishful thinking 2422% 2423<xcabbage> mind.sf.net crashed my browser 2424<dash> signs of intelligent life! 2425% 2426<glyph> The only thing more absurd than the technology of XML is the politics surrounding it. 2427% 2428<glyph> While it is *possible* that I'm smarter than you think I am, it is certain that I'm more stubborn. 2429% 2430<z3p> glyph: what group of programmers are you picking on tonight? 2431<glyph> z3p: PyXML again 2432<z3p> sounds like a blast :) 2433<glyph> z3p: ugh. Actually I have a pretty high opinion of some of those people so it bugs me to have to be flaming :) 2434<dash> glyph: bah, just lower your opinion of them 2435<dash> no need to consider their past character, if they're wrong, they're scum@#! 2436* dash twitches 2437% 2438<glyph> _moshez: debian really needs to make start-stop-daemon do something 2439 cute, like put icons across the top of the fbdev 2440% 2441<glyph> we need PB for C# 2442* moshez squishes glyph 2443<moshez> glyph: squishy insane person 2444% 2445<dash> moshez: we dont have the right kind of soil to not grow wheat in 2446% 2447<exarkun> I try to limit myself to one major screw up a week 2448% 2449<tenth> in OSX, they deprecate things with hammers and nailguns 2450% 2451<Lan_Rover> it is my official decree that it is easier to config and run twisted as a web server than to install apache2 and mod_python 2452% 2453<liiwi> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/09/12/160255.shtml?tid=99 2454 [the topic is "squishy Digital Rights Management" -ed] 2455* dash looks at slashdot 2456* dash looks at moshez 2457<dash> moshez: just _what_ have you been up to lately???? 2458% 2459<itamar> thank god I'm not religious 2460% 2461<dash> Hi. Allow me to express my opinion of Word now that i've gotten to know it a little better. 2462<dash> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa. 2463% 2464<glyph> Stravad: whereas eval is like slitting your own throat before going 2465 out for a walk so as to make the mugger's job easier 2466% 2467<glyph> radix: keep your eyes on the bot! we move fast. 2468% 2469<infinity> moshez : I won't denounce PHP... It still has its uses.. <shrug>... 2470 I denounced most PHP *users* about a week after adopting it, though. 2471<infinity> That language attracts more idiots... 2472[Ed: infinity is the Debian PHP maintainer] 2473% 2474<Aco> radix: ever heard for this russian group tato/taty? pop 2475<radix> Aco: nope 2476<Aco> radix: well, girls were like 16 when they started. they sing in 2477ther white underpants, and they wet them with water.. so you can see 2478under. very interesting. want some pictures? :) 2479<dash> Aco: please do not corrupt our release manager 2480<dash> Aco: at least not until after 1.0 2481% 2482<radix> hehe yeah the whore house was awesome :D 2483<radix> if you go in with a high-level the chicks pass out after you're done 2484 with them 2485% 2486<Tv> What kind of dope is that? md5 digests _are_ 16 bytes. 2487<warner> don't trust the hash, man 2488% 2489<bruce> hmmm. i didn't get my 11pm cron output email. 2490* bruce forgets which cronjob that is though. 2491<skreech> bruce: nuclear war has erupted. haven't you heard? 2492<bruce> (or what machine it runs on) 2493<bruce> (or what user it runs as on what machine) 2494<glyph> skreech: in 2002, war was beginning 2495* skreech makes a "boooosshhh" sound. 2496<skreech> glyph: what happen? 2497<glyph> skreech: somebody set up bruce the cron, apparently 2498<skreech> glyph: main vi turn on 2499% 2500<shapr> c:\> vrms 2501% 2502<itamar> yes, but that doesn't make sense, how can you be proud of a civil war? 2503<exarkuN> itamar: we won 2504<exarkuN> itamar: what's not to be proud of? 2505% 2506<jml> is there a doc on twisted's version numbering conventions? 2507<dash> jml: glyph rolls dice 2508% 2509<itamar> dash is *already* pre-strectched 2510<itamar> he's like 6 feet 2511<itamar> well 2512<itamar> he's actualy 1.80 meters 2513<itamar> or so 2514<itamar> it's not that he's a giant insect 2515% 2516<_moshez> itamar: I'm agaisnt the state too :) 2517<shapr> _moshez: are you purely functional? 2518% 2519<jml> dash: there's an otherwise normal guy at work who uses tcl as his scripting language of choice 2520% 2521<sjj> let me tell you something. I worked at BK for 1 year, and the veggie burgers have more meat than the whoppers, but nobody complained! 2522% 2523<sjj> moshez: don't kid yourself, if a cow got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about. 2524% 2525<dash> zb0: ok, let me describe what you sound like 2526<dash> zb0: "Hi. I want to drive a spike through my foot into the floor. Can someone help me with that? I know i dont need to, but there are other things i want to drive spikes into." 2527% 2528<itamar> it's "moshez vs. the CS profs of doom" 2529<dash> itamar: i think in a war with the CS profs of doom, i'd be on moshez's 2530 side. 2531<itamar> yes, but your goals are different 2532<itamar> inevitably your pact would weaken 2533<dash> itamar: well, we'd fight a duel if we both survived the war. 2534% 2535<dash> |mmy: cgi is not an enterprise solution. 2536% 2537<_moshez> cyli: oh, yes. what did you think of my flame to val? 2538<cyli> moshez: i didn't get to read all of it. glyph kept interrupting me 2539 with questions of what i thought of it. and then i had dinner. 2540% 2541<glyph> phed: the abbreviation FAQ does not have the word "smart" in it 2542% 2543<cvs> Commit from glyph (changed 1) in Twisted/twisted/web: "A more expository docstring. Sometimes I'm distracted easily and I might stop in the middle of" static.py 2544% 2545<anonymous> i keep forgetting how much *fun* python is without zope 2546% 2547<glyph> radix: so ... it doesn't already do what you want? 2548<radix> glyph: Well, now that I understand that what I wanted is impossible, yes. :-) 2549<radix> I mean, yes, it does everything that I want, now. ;-) 2550-vinge.openprojects.net- glyph changed topic: Learn from radix: if Twisted doesn't do what you want, modify your desires. 2551% 2552<CainKnight> Right now, I could care less about the best way to do this, or the 2553 intricacies involved. What I care about is making a function get 2554 called. 2555<CainKnight> If that involves ritual sacrifice to dark gods, fine. 2556<CainKnight> I don't care why the dark gods want chicken blood. 2557<CainKnight> All I need to know right now is will they accept it and make the 2558 volcano not wipe out my city. 2559<CainKnight> Once the volcano is placated, then i can go back and figure out 2560 that it wasn't the blood, it was the heat mixed with the iron in a 2561 rich oxygen environment, and adjust the ritual properly in the 2562 future. 2563% 2564<Yosomono@efnet> I'm so open source that I sequenced my genome and released ISOs 2565% 2566<glyph> one of the nice things about being american and effectively 2567 culture-free 2568[The next line isn't really important, is it? --ed] 2569% 2570<glyph> radix: there is NO bit of canada that's that close to you 2571% 2572<radix> ok, *6* hours ;-) 2573<glyph> radix: yeah, if your car can _fly_ 2574% 2575<Erwin> I will code your website and polish your shoes! With my toung! 2576<moshez> Erwin: how do you code a website with your tongue? 2577<dash> moshez: two words 2578<dash> "salivaproof keyboard" 2579% 2580<z3p> WHY DO YOU MOCK ME UNIX 2581% 2582<radix> what does wifi have to do with feng shui? :P 2583<dash> radix: optimal flows of internet through your house 2584% 2585* moshez doesn't see how you can not have a computer in the bedroom 2586<moshez> I mean, what if you wake up at 4am and need to talk to someone 2587<dash> moshez: walk into the other room? 2588<moshez> dash: I'd need to get dressed for that 2589<dash> moshez: bathrobe 2590<moshez> dash: I'm sane 2591<moshez> dash: my bathrobe is in the bathroom 2592% 2593<itamar> dash: how'd you learn? 2594<dash> itamar: lessons 2595% 2596<radix> bathrobe is easier than boxers ;-) 2597<moshez> radix: how so? 2598<radix> moshez: eh, you have to deal with legs 2599<radix> a swoosh around the shoulders is easier, I think 2600<moshez> radix: it takes more presence of mind to tie the belt-thingy 2601<jml> moshez: compared to buttons on boxers? I think not 2602<moshez> buttons??????? 2603<moshez> jml: who makes your boxers? Chinese Torture 'R' Us? 2604% 2605<moshez> I'm always nice. 2606% 2607<moshez> jml: you're like all men, you're afraid of committing 2608<jml> moshez: it's a deep seated fear of conflict 2609% 2610<glyph> bruce_: GPL can't force you to write code under non-MIT/BSD licenses 2611<exarkun> GPL+mindflayer can though 2612% 2613<zen-@ircnet> which the ratio simplicity/expressivitiy of python? 2614<moshez> 2.49866397309784 2615<moshez> approximately 2616<tigrux> moshez ? 2617<moshez> tigrux: well, it's for Python2.2 2618<moshez> I haven't had time to modify my calculations for the CVS version 2619% 2620<spiv> mjs: You've probably noticed by now that dash is only here to make occasional remarks about Twisted & World Domination... ;) 2621<mjs> spiv: yeah I starting to notice... but I am sure it will become more fervent when we have a Lisp twisted implementation. =) 2622<dash> mjs: when that happens, i will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine 2623% 2624